Can the digitrax Zephyr fry a decoder

[sinebar]

I put a digitrax DH163P in my Broadway PRR M1a and it went around my track about 5 or 6 times and then stopped. The digitrax indicates a short and I have not been able to clear the short. How can I tell if the decoder is good? Is it possible that the Digitrax is frying the decoder or circuit board on the loco for some reason?

 

[jbaakko]

I put a digitrax DH163P in my Broadway PRR M1a and it went around my track about 5 or 6 times and then stopped. The digitrax indicates a short and I have not been able to clear the short. How can I tell if the decoder is good? Is it possible that the Digitrax is frying the decoder or circuit board on the loco for some reason?

You can pick up a decoder tester.

 

[NYC_George]

I use a dpdt switch one side connects to the layout the other to a test or programming track so I can isolate such problems as the one your having. If the engine creates a short on the test track then I know the problem is in the engine some where.

NYC_George

 

[SpaceMouse]

If a decoder is wired wrong in the engine (that includes a solder bridge on the socket and I've found that twice) you can fry a decoder on a Zephyr or any other DCC power supply.

 

[sinebar]

If a decoder is wired wrong in the engine (that includes a solder bridge on the socket and I've found that twice) you can fry a decoder on a Zephyr or any other DCC power supply.

Well lets say that everthing on the train is perfect. Can the Zephyr alone malfunction and fry a decoder? I'm just trying to narrow down the trouble area. If I can elliminate the controller as the source then I don't have to worry about it.

 

[SpaceMouse]

If the Zephyr was broken, and it say, shot 110 v 15 amps through the track, it could melt your engine's body.

IF you are that worried about it call Digitrax Tech SUpport and and get them to help. Call when you can work on the unit. Did you try to change the address on the M1?

 

[sinebar]

If the Zephyr was broken, and it say, shot 110 v 15 amps through the track, it could melt your engine's body.

IF you are that worried about it call Digitrax Tech SUpport and and get them to help. Call when you can work on the unit. Did you try to change the address on the M1?

No it's still 03 default. If I can change the decoder to a different address does that mean the decoder is good? I reads back the address on a programming track. I don't think I need to set up an elaborate bus wiring as other suggested because the train will run on the track with a DC transformer. The bus system they described is to assure continuity and unless I'm wrong I don't think good continuity will prevent a short. I think the problem is in the locomotive and probably a bad board. I'm going to try to send it back.

 

[RexHea]

I have the thoughts that there is something wrong with the decoder installation or loco more than a command module problem.

What do you mean by a DC transformer hooked to the track? You can't run DCC and DC on the same track at the same time...they are two different animals.

 

[sinebar]

I have the thoughts that there is something wrong with the decoder installation or loco more than a command module problem.

What do you mean by a DC transformer hooked to the track? You can't run DCC and DC on the same track at the same time...they are two different animals.

With the DCC controller disconected I connected an analog DC controller to the track operated the M1a in DC. With the DCC controller, the short only occurs when the tender is on the track. Just the loco with no tender if fine. The tender is the source of the problem. I need to check to see if the tender causes a short with no decoder pluged in.

 

[SpaceMouse]

No it's still 03 default. If I can change the decoder to a different address does that mean the decoder is good? I reads back the address on a programming track. I don't think I need to set up an elaborate bus wiring as other suggested because the train will run on the track with a DC transformer. The bus system they described is to assure continuity and unless I'm wrong I don't think good continuity will prevent a short. I think the problem is in the locomotive and probably a bad board. I'm going to try to send it back.

Yes and it checks the program track. If the decoder is working like you think, then it is the Zephyr. If it can't program it. It may be the decoder. The program track and the track power are two separate functions and one may not affect the other.

 

[sinebar]

Yes and it checks the program track. If the decoder is working like you think, then it is the Zephyr. If it can't program it. It may be the decoder. The program track and the track power are two separate functions and one may not affect the other.

I don't know if the decoder is working or not actually. It will read back the factory set addrss but does that mean it's good? I have not tried to write to yet. How do I test the Zephyr to see if its bad? It won't run the loco in analog mode when I set to the zephyr to address 00. It's supose to run a DC loco in DC mode as long as address 00 is selected.

 

[SpaceMouse]

Try to write to it.

Hook up the program track. Push Program. It will read the address. Enter the number of your loco. You may have to change to 4 digit first, I don't know how on the base unit.

Hit enter. It will either read the number or ask a question. What ever the question answer yes until it says okay.

Exit program.

Put your loco on the track and try it with the new address.

 

[sinebar]

Try to write to it.

Hook up the program track. Push Program. It will read the address. Enter the number of your loco. You may have to change to 4 digit first, I don't know how on the base unit.

Hit enter. It will either read the number or ask a question. What ever the question answer yes until it says okay.

Exit program.

Put your loco on the track and try it with the new address.

I'll try it when I get home from work. I'm also going to place the tender with out the decoder on the track and see if it shorts with no decoder in stalled.

 

[NickB]

Is there wires running from the tender to the Loco?? If so is there a possibility that you had plugged them in backwards??

 

[sinebar]

Is there wires running from the tender to the Loco?? If so is there a possibility that you had plugged them in backwards??

Yes there is a plug from the tender that plugs into the back of the loco. There is only one way the plug can be plugged in so it is not possible to get it backwards.

 

[RexHea]

I like your test of using the main track, removing decoder and see if the short disappears. If not, then look for pinched/loose wires in tender. I do have to add that anything is possible in electrical/electronics.

One thing that hasn't made any sense to me is the fact you can read the decoder on the test track. While this uses a different part of the command module and a much smaller current (mA), it still shouldn't work if there is a dead short. The programming signal still uses the track pickups to the decoder inputs and the decoder is fully operational.

I wonder if it possible that the command module's sensitivity is set too high. Hmmm! Let us know what happens with your test.

 

[sinebar]

I like your test of using the main track, removing decoder and see if the short disappears. If not, then look for pinched/loose wires in tender. I do have to add that anything is possible in electrical/electronics.

One thing that hasn't made any sense to me is the fact you can read the decoder on the test track. While this uses a different part of the command module and a much smaller current (mA), it still shouldn't work if there is a dead short. The programming signal still uses the track pickups to the decoder inputs and the decoder is fully operational.

I wonder if it possible that the command module's sensitivity is set too high. Hmmm! Let us know what happens with your test.

Well I removed the decoder and placed just the tender on the track and still get the same problem. I think the decoder is good but something on the board is bad. I'm getting a new big boy tomorrow and I'm worried about running it until I find out what is causing all this. If the zephyr is somehow damaging the circuit boards then the new big boy will do like the first one did.

 

[sinebar]

Try to write to it.

Hook up the program track. Push Program. It will read the address. Enter the number of your loco. You may have to change to 4 digit first, I don't know how on the base unit.

Hit enter. It will either read the number or ask a question. What ever the question answer yes until it says okay.

Exit program.

Put your loco on the track and try it with the new address.

Well the PRR M1a is running but I'm leary of it. I talked to the Broadway Blueline tech and he told me to check the tender trucks orientation. He told me that all the wheels on one side must not conduct between the axle and wheels and all the wheels on the oposite side must conduct between axle and wheels. I thought this sound odd and maybe I misunderstood what he said because oriented like that would cause an open circuit. Well I checked the trucks and sure enough the conducting side of one truck was the opposite of the other which makes sense. But I did what he said and reoriented so that all the wheels on one side of both trucks conducted and the other side did not. Well just as I suspected this caused an open circuit. So I figured I misunderstood and changed them back but I reversed the orientations from what they where originally and the dam thing started working. It still shorts but I can unplug the power and then plug it back in and then the short clears. I don't know how long it will keep working but I will just have to see. He also suggested setting ops18=c on the Zephyr to make the short circuit sensitivity less. I don't know if the zephyr has that ability though.

 

[SpaceMouse]

I'm not sure about the M1, but the tender is used for electrical pick-ip on most steamers. One wheel on each set is insulated so that the front truck picks up the current from one side of the track and the rear truck picks up current from the other. If one is reversed they are both on the same track, and it does not get power. If the drive wheels are also powered, then you can get a short. If both tender wheels are reversed, you would get a short.

 

[sinebar]

I'm not sure about the M1, but the tender is used for electrical pick-ip on most steamers. One wheel on each set is insulated so that the front truck picks up the current from one side of the track and the rear truck picks up current from the other. If one is reversed they are both on the same track, and it does not get power. If the drive wheels are also powered, then you can get a short. If both tender wheels are reversed, you would get a short.

Is it a polarity issue then? If my research is right a DCC controller produces a pulsating DC current which means there is a neg and positive.