My thoughts exactly!
Building the Pinnacle Creek Mining & Timber Co. RR
- Thread starter HOexplorer
- Start date
My thoughts exactly!
Jim, Just so I can gain some perspective here ... what was the overall size of the "Z scale" layout?
signed,
simply flabbergasted!
signed,
simply flabbergasted!
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks Sherrel.
Steve, Z has be around for over 25 years I think. While it still suffers from lack of buildings and stuff like that the actually running and reliability of diesels has really improved. Here in SoCal the ZoCal modular group can run DCC trains up to 100 cars long for hours with only some little kid causing any mishaps. They also have a staging yard that is capable of holding nearly a 1000 cars. It all works. While I would never go back to Z, if you are ever at a trainshow in California you have to see this all working. Truly amazing. Jim
Steve, Z has be around for over 25 years I think. While it still suffers from lack of buildings and stuff like that the actually running and reliability of diesels has really improved. Here in SoCal the ZoCal modular group can run DCC trains up to 100 cars long for hours with only some little kid causing any mishaps. They also have a staging yard that is capable of holding nearly a 1000 cars. It all works. While I would never go back to Z, if you are ever at a trainshow in California you have to see this all working. Truly amazing. Jim
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Geared Steam
Member
It's best to buy direct for Tichy stuff, my favorite kits.
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/Default.aspx
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HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Sherrel, The first photos are from the size of my current HO layout. Just 6 years separating them. So this Z and my N, and now HO layout are all about 92 square feet in my 10'x11' spare bedroom.
This last photo was on a layout I did for a fellow in Iowa. 3'x4'. Jim
This last photo was on a layout I did for a fellow in Iowa. 3'x4'. Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
GS, I haven't seen you for a while. The link didn't work for me. Jim
Geared Steam
Member
GS, I haven't seen you for a while. The link didn't work for me. Jim
Hey Jim
The link is fixed.
Railrunner130
Well-Known Member
The first thing that strikes me are the wood scraps. It's telling me that the entire area was recently cut. Perhaps this the look you are going for? I'm also seeing a lot of larger pieces of scrap wood. While I'm not as familiar with logging operations as I'd like to be, I imagine there is/was a good deal of waste, but at the same time a conscious effort to maximize the wood. I think the scrap pieces would be smaller and to see a lot of sawdust.
If it is a fresh cut, perhaps some of the bushes and grass should be matted down. I'd also expect to see the leaves from the cut trees. I don't know how that would be handled in a logging operation.
Also, I can't tell, but I think your stumps should match the cut wood in color.
Just some things to think about. I hope that helps.
If it is a fresh cut, perhaps some of the bushes and grass should be matted down. I'd also expect to see the leaves from the cut trees. I don't know how that would be handled in a logging operation.
Also, I can't tell, but I think your stumps should match the cut wood in color.
Just some things to think about. I hope that helps.
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JPIII
I see some really big stumps hiding anongst the reprod. Very good. I think that it looks good except that judging by the reprod, this was logged about 10 or more years ago. It is my thought that there would be much more brush growing over the chum that is left around the area. You know how fast brush grows around here.
Steve
I see some really big stumps hiding anongst the reprod. Very good. I think that it looks good except that judging by the reprod, this was logged about 10 or more years ago. It is my thought that there would be much more brush growing over the chum that is left around the area. You know how fast brush grows around here.
Steve
Indeed......and the 10 year old bit is what I envisioned.
I'm in the process of making some taller dried grass/leafed brush tufts. I think I have the material....if not the talent.
May even break out the deer hair & fly tying vise....
With 20/20 hindsight, I should have done some patches of 12mm static grass FIRST. I was behind the power curve..again....
Once I get away from this area I can get out the static grass unit.....There is only about 147sq/ft to go.
Most all the rest can be R&Red easily.Jim:
The old pics I have proved beyond any doubt that wood conservation wasn't on them old boys priority list. ....but the rest of your comments look valid to me.
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If I may, a few point that stand out immediately for me.
1. The tree debris is out-of-scale with the scene. Nor do I see any reason why it all would be stripped of bark.
2. There appear to be several almost locomotive-sized stumps. Unless the company is cutting redwoods, these too are out of scale.
3. The pine trees are much too uniform in height and spacing. There being an obvious lack of any other second growth trees in the scene as well.
4. Dense scrub would be anticipated to dominate a clear-cut region a decade or so after the logging process ended, unless the region is particularly arid.
5. If the scene indeed represents an area of past clear-cutting there should be decidedly more dumps evident for the logging to have proved logical and profitable in the first place.
NYW&B
1. The tree debris is out-of-scale with the scene. Nor do I see any reason why it all would be stripped of bark.
2. There appear to be several almost locomotive-sized stumps. Unless the company is cutting redwoods, these too are out of scale.
3. The pine trees are much too uniform in height and spacing. There being an obvious lack of any other second growth trees in the scene as well.
4. Dense scrub would be anticipated to dominate a clear-cut region a decade or so after the logging process ended, unless the region is particularly arid.
5. If the scene indeed represents an area of past clear-cutting there should be decidedly more dumps evident for the logging to have proved logical and profitable in the first place.
NYW&B
NYW&B
I'm assuming you're from the East Coast and are used to that area. You may be correct for that area. This is Western Washington. Not Pine trees, Douglas Fir. Remember that logging railroads were an expensive undertaking. They built them to log big timber. If it didn't pay it's way, it was left in the woods. The trees were felled with axe's and cross cut saws. Usually the trees were cut fairly high up on the stump to get past the swell and the possible butt rot using spring boards. This was an art in and of itself. Many of these trees were a single log load for the first 2 or 3 logs. The yarding was done with towers or spar trees and steam donkeys. This process wreaked havoc on the rest of the forest. Any trees in the way were knocked down and everything was drug over them. Hence the name "clear cut". If this were down in a bottom land and wet, then the alders would indeed take over for a time. Maybe the Hemlock as well but on the hillsides like in this picture, the young firs are particularly suited and tend to take over. Witness that these young trees are only 10 to 12 years old. These are the second growth trees that will become the backbone of the later timber industry in the Northwest.
So far I think it's looking good. Looks like many places I saw as a youngster.
Steve
I'm assuming you're from the East Coast and are used to that area. You may be correct for that area. This is Western Washington. Not Pine trees, Douglas Fir. Remember that logging railroads were an expensive undertaking. They built them to log big timber. If it didn't pay it's way, it was left in the woods. The trees were felled with axe's and cross cut saws. Usually the trees were cut fairly high up on the stump to get past the swell and the possible butt rot using spring boards. This was an art in and of itself. Many of these trees were a single log load for the first 2 or 3 logs. The yarding was done with towers or spar trees and steam donkeys. This process wreaked havoc on the rest of the forest. Any trees in the way were knocked down and everything was drug over them. Hence the name "clear cut". If this were down in a bottom land and wet, then the alders would indeed take over for a time. Maybe the Hemlock as well but on the hillsides like in this picture, the young firs are particularly suited and tend to take over. Witness that these young trees are only 10 to 12 years old. These are the second growth trees that will become the backbone of the later timber industry in the Northwest.
So far I think it's looking good. Looks like many places I saw as a youngster.
Steve
JPIII
My thought is that you're OK so far as the brush would have grown up over the chum. Everything you add to the scene will be covering up the debris. There is some really good lichen that grows on the trees around here that makes great brush when it is sprayed with paint and WS foliage sprinkled onto it. I'll try to get some pictures and show you which moss I'm talking about.
Steve
My thought is that you're OK so far as the brush would have grown up over the chum. Everything you add to the scene will be covering up the debris. There is some really good lichen that grows on the trees around here that makes great brush when it is sprayed with paint and WS foliage sprinkled onto it. I'll try to get some pictures and show you which moss I'm talking about.
Steve
Here is a link well worth having a look at.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dar...0BIv8iQKZ9IGoCA&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=799
Steve
https://www.google.com/search?q=dar...0BIv8iQKZ9IGoCA&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=799
Steve
Thanks Steve. That link went right into my favorites file for later perusal/study.
NYW&B:
All input it welcome......that's why I'm here playing at Jims house.
By way of explanation, my layout is what I call a photo-freelance. I'm working off my collection of old B & W photographs as a guide to building my RR. Without steping too heavely on Jims thread the area in question is the easy part and these switchbacks are the only access to where the meat & potatos are.......the Salmon Creek Lumber mainline so to speak. For additional info. Here's a link to that and I'll get out of Jim's hair. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=12776
I've scaned in a photo to show what I am trying to emulate as an end game. Fitting my 1:1 scale hands in there will make me open it up some but you get the idea. This strikes me as a rare shot showing PNW old growth and the RR is just passing thru to get at the good stuff.These old pics don't scan well.....sorry, but It's the best I got for now.
Humm, my speel checked is diad.
NYW&B:
All input it welcome......that's why I'm here playing at Jims house.
By way of explanation, my layout is what I call a photo-freelance. I'm working off my collection of old B & W photographs as a guide to building my RR. Without steping too heavely on Jims thread the area in question is the easy part and these switchbacks are the only access to where the meat & potatos are.......the Salmon Creek Lumber mainline so to speak. For additional info. Here's a link to that and I'll get out of Jim's hair. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=12776
I've scaned in a photo to show what I am trying to emulate as an end game. Fitting my 1:1 scale hands in there will make me open it up some but you get the idea. This strikes me as a rare shot showing PNW old growth and the RR is just passing thru to get at the good stuff.These old pics don't scan well.....sorry, but It's the best I got for now.
Humm, my speel checked is diad.
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The book was published in 1961. Even with extensions, the pics (non-credited) copyrights lapse after 56 years and become "public domain".
Mr. Labbe signed my book so I'm sure he would like the stuff to be passed around.....sure, it's a stretch.
The U oF O doesn't own the copyright because they have a "collection". I can just see a bunch of "old timers" (which we are now) arguing "how many angeles can dance on the head of a pin" ad nauseum.
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I have only a few books. At that, the content & diversity of what them old boys did is overwhelming. I like seldom (or never) seen features to include on my RR.....that makes it a stinker to do well. I should live long enough
to get all the stuff I'd like to do, but.....