Best formula for ballast glue/adhesive for N scale

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videobruce

Tower Operator
This isn't another how to ballast track thread, but just what do you guys feel is the best mixture of adhesive/glue and water detergent and/or Isopropyl Alcohol?

Most of the White Glue mixtures are 50/50, that and water thou I have seen 1 part glue & four parts water which seems kinda thin. That and either a few drops of IPA or liquid dishwater detergent.
I've also read of IPA and water mixture spraying separately from the glue mixture or a combo of 1:1:1 (or similar) parts glue, water & IPA as a one step mixture which seems easier.

What do you guys think??
 

santafewillie

Same Ol' Buzzard
Here's what I do, you decide if it's the best for you.
After painting the rails/ties and letting them dry, I pour the ballast on and gently shape it with a soft 3/4" artist brush. I use the Woodland Scenics medium ballast for HO. Then I use a spray bottle with a mixture of 60% water and 40% rubbing alcohol and thoroughly wet everything. I work on about 2' at a time just because that's easiest for me. Then I dribble on a mixture of 60% water and 40% Elmer's White Glue and again thoroughly soak. I make this mixture in an old Elmer's bottle with a few drops of Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent added. The Elmer's bottle already has the perfect spout for dribbling. I then use a folded paper towel to wipe any glue off the rails. Mostly there is none anyway, but sure enough if I skip this step there will be some. Additionally, it wipes up the water/alcohol that I spray first and cleans any dirt off the rails. I also dab the ties with the same paper towel for any excess glue that may have pooled there, although it eventually dries clear and is not really visible. I use only Elmer's White Glue or an equivalent; I do not use Elmer's School Glue, as it is much thinner. It could probably work but the ratio would be much greater a percentage of glue. Think $$$ even though it may not be much. I have used this method with Arizona Rock ballast in the past with good results.
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I have tried the water/alcohol/glue mixture before, but is is either too messy because it runs too much, or if using a spray bottle, clogs up the sprayer and coats the rail. I also don't want or need to get in a hurry.
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
I definitely would not use a spray. You wind up over spraying on each side. Past that, if one uses a 'dropper' you feel it's still a problem combining steps? It's just that it saves a pass. ;)
 

Smudge617

Well-Known Member
I use thin tape on top of the actual track, then lay kitchen towels either side of the track, lay ballast then using a spray soak the ballast with water with a few drops of washing up liquid added, then use a 60/40 mix of Gorilla wood glue and water sprayed on top, remove towels and tape, and I leave it 24hrs to dry, and done.
 

Selector

Well-Known Member
I use beach sand. It's plentiful eight minutes away by car. I groom it, spray it with a cheap garden mister with drug store 70% isopropyl alcohol. Then, using a recycled wood glue bottle with the pull-up nib, I dribble a wood glue mix using three parts glue to five parts water, with two or three drops of dish detergent added. I throw three or four small pebbles into the vessel to aid in mixing.

It seems to turn out pretty well:

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Snowman

Well-Known Member
I saw an interesting ballasting idea on Nick Husen's Free-moN "Troy, MT" module about a month back: He laid his down using sanded grout, as you might use between bathroom tiles. My initial thought was that it looked pretty good because it seemed to have a fine grain size. IMO this is one of the biggest problems and particularly so in N, and because, being grout, the grains were filled in between with solid material right from the get-go. I thought they looked like they were sitting down, tightly interlocked, rather than having a top layer that sits up, where you can almost see light underneath the top surface grains/rocks.

The whole point of real railroad ballast is to immerse the ties on top of a solidly interlocked (read: unmoving) surface and to embed them too, so they do not shift around and let the ties move sideways. That's why the rocks are sharply pointed--so they interlock--rather than water-worn, like some decorative gravels. The latter can easily shift and move, even if you just walk on it, and the sand grains, like those suggested by Selector just above look broken and pointed, at least to my eye.

Personally, I like to fill in between the grains with a fine dust, but that grout idea is something I really do want to try. If it's easy to use, it might take one step out of the process, and it also shouldn't blow away if you sneeze on it before you get it stuck/fixed in place.

As to other fixatives: Another you might try is artists "Matte Medium," which is a goo sometimes mixed into acrylic (water based) paints, or used to give an overcoat after the original painting is finished (so the paint doesn't chip off). It comes in several finishes, Matte, Satin, Gloss, etc, but matte is what you want. You can thin it to whatever consistency you want, and apply it with an eyedropper. It looks like you just poured a thin "milk" onto your ballast when you first put it on, but, it settles in and dries clear.

That said, you can thin down white glue as well, and the glue can sometimes be softened up again with a sponge or wet rag laid on top if the need arises, while the medium will sport an invisible, but rubber like surface which is permanent once set down. I saw Tony Koester comment that he like to fix his static grass in place with white glue, so he could come back, wet the surface again, and straighten up the fibers using the static applicator tool almost as you would a handheld vacuum cleaner (go figure).

In any case, I would test any ideas/methods first on a short section of track to see if you like it, and to see if the process works for you.

I would also, as has already been suggested, add some drops of dish soap like Dawn, to thin any fixatives still further during application. I have not tried alcohol myself, so I can't comment on that.

Dish soap is a surfactant--it breaks up surface film, like the surface tension of plain water, and Dawn happens to be a brand I've seen used by animal rescue people on seabirds when there is an oil spill. The birds cannot fly because their feathers are glued together with oil, but giving them a good strong bath with soap can get them working properly again--it thins the sticky stuff right out.

Try some different ideas to see what works for you. I doubt you will find anything that's "best" for everyone, but if it suits you, that's all the best you'll need. :D

Good luck!
 
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videobruce

Tower Operator
I use thin tape on top of the actual track, then lay kitchen towels either side of the track, lay ballast then using a spray soak the ballast with water with a few drops of washing up liquid added, then use a 60/40 mix of Gorilla wood glue and water sprayed on top, remove towels and tape, and I leave it 24hrs to dry, and done.
You lost me with the tape deal.
Doesn't that block spraying the the ballast?
 

Smudge617

Well-Known Member
You lost me with the tape deal.
Doesn't that block spraying the the ballast?
No, I use very thin tape painters tape, similar to tape sign writers use, that will just cover the top of the rail nothing more, it's fiddly to do tho' but you just peel it off when your done. Willie says he wipes the rails as he goes, which works for him, but I kept on brushing the ballast and moving it when I tried that method, so I use tape instead.
 

goscrewyourselves

I'm the one
I do similar to Willie ... spread my ballast with a widish soft artists brush, keeping it fairly vertical. I then use an pipette to spread alcohol (70% preferable but any will work) until I can see the alcohol seeping beneath the rails to the outsides. I do in between the rails first, then the outsides when the middle has dried. Once I have put down the alcohol I then use a condiments bottle with a 60/40 or 50/50 mix of white glue and water to drip the glue in between the ties along the length of the ballast area. I also don't try to do more than 1 - 2' at a time. I reposition any ballast that has moved by the glue back in place with a hobby knife. Sit back, wait for it to dry then go again :)

I use the same method for ballasting the outsides of the track as well.
 




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