Atlas track plan issue?

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jasonelki

jasonelki

Milwaukee Roader
Atlas track plan issue? Update!

Hi guys, got a question for you. This is my first layout, so I started with the Atlas track plan #6, the Trunk Line. I purchased the products based upon the item numbers in the atlas booklet. I seem to have issues with the track lining up coming out of the switches, as well as the curves running into one another. To me it looks like the angle isn't steep enough. I purchased atlas #850 and 851 remote snap switches.
I've seen photos of this layout and I'm not very close to it, what is going on?
Thanks, Jason

Here is a photo (not the greatest) of what I've got so far.View attachment 11332
 
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Some of the Atlas track plans just weren't drawn very well but most would come out right as long as you had the exact dimensions of the plans and used exactly the right pieces. One of the problems is that some of those plans are quite old and Atlas has changed some of the geometry of both the switches and curved tracks since they were drawn. You can go over your trackwork to make sure you are really using all the correct parts in the correct places. For example, it looks like you have 22" curves on the inside loop when the plan probably calls for 18" curves. At best, I look at those Atlas track plans as a general idea of the layout and make adjustments as I go along.
 
To simplify things in the long run, it might just be easier to go out a buy a couple pieces of flex. Then when the layout doesn't quite work, you can substitute a piece of flex for the rigid piece that doesn't white work.
 


Atlas, track fit vs plan

Chip is correct about having some flex track backup. My son and I are building the Atlas Central Midland and we had to make adjustments with flex track. We reviewed the track plan constantly and found issues no matter what. I would also suggest that you find some "Ribbonrail" radius gauges to help assemble your layout. These were very helpfull to us at track joints and on the flex track. The ribbonrail gauges are hard to find but they are out there.
Good luck on the layout.
Wayne
 
SpaceMouse said:
To simplify things in the long run, it might just be easier to go out a buy a couple pieces of flex. Then when the layout doesn't quite work, you can substitute a piece of flex for the rigid piece that doesn't white work.
Click to expand...

Does the track need to be consistent as far as "Code" goes?? If I get code 100 track, I need to get code 100 Flex Track also??
 
Atlas track

It wouold be correct to use code 100 with 100 but we used 83 thru out. Some use 100 on the main with 83 and 70 in yards and spurs. I would defer that discussion to others who know more tha I. I am just assuming that you wouldnt want to mix on main lines but like I said I would defer.
Wayne
 
I agree with Wayne. You should really stick with one code size of rail for the mainline. You can mix code sizes by using transition joiners but they tend to be trouble spots on a mainline. It's not a problem if your going to a smaller code size for a siding or industrial tracks because you're running at a slower speed and you can usually make your transition on a straight section of track.
 
Here is an update, a rather usettling one anyway. I noticed on the back of the atlas switch card that if you add the 1/3 18" section, the switch will be just like an 18" radius piece. Well, it is not. All the curved pieces I have are 18" radius, which I checked vs. the 18" radius terminal I purchased. I had an old manual switch that I checked, and sure enough, with the 1/3 18" piece it made an 18" curve. So, bottom line here, the angle of the switch with the 1/3 ext. does not equal an 18" curve.
This photo shows my 18" radius terminal over the top of the snap switch (#851), they don't line up very well, do they? Arg.

Did Atlas change the switch angle or what? I took the layout from the Atlas Beginner's Guide to HO Model Railroading. The bottom of the book says updated for 2008.

Any ideas for my next move? I purchased all the track parts off amazon.com. And of course everything is opened so returns aren't an option.
 
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I don't think that one piece made all of the difference. From the original pic I thought I saw the turn coming off of the straight part of the turnout. So far you've only showed one quarter of the layout. take a pic of the other quarter in question and post it. Also as stated before, you can pick up a piece of 36 inch flex and fix most problems.
 
Try experimenting also. I have a copy of the plan you're looking at. I think your problem is ot the upper end that isn't in the pic.
If you look at the 2 1/5 inch straight piece at the middle of the innner curve it should be just about centered on the middle line. It isn't. Something further around is shoving the whole thing over.
 
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Thanks for the advice. The whole layout is taken apart to check to make sure I have all the pieces, which I have, so a photo of the layout is out of the question for now!

The whole issue here is the angle coming off the switch, (which is why the straight short piece on the inner loops isn't lining up with the middle of the outer). I do have some pieces of flex, but, had I known customizing was more of a necessity than an option for this track plan, I wouldn't have purchased all the specialty pieces to put it together, I would have just cut them from flex. At this point I think I'm more annoyed with the fact that I bought all the pieces for this layout and it isn't coming together, but I suppose thats what happens on your first layout, trial and error.

I've tried a few experiments with no luck, just end up needing odd sized pieces to get this to fit, along with curves tighter than 18" radius. I am working with a 4 x 8 so I don't have a ton of space on the outside of the layout to work with.
I'm going to try calling atlas tomorrow and find out about the exit angle.

Also, check out the thread here titled-"beginer ho layout" and look at the last photos by OldGettysk, check out the exit angle on those switches.
 
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Your pic coming out of the switch matched the magazine very closely all around to the center of the turn. I still think you had an issue on the other side.
 
The other side of the layout is no factor in this. These pieces are all butted tight together. I took a few more pics, check it out.

The first photo is the layout from the book, lower left. I double and triple checked the pieces and they are all correct, does your book show the same thing?

The second photo is my layout with the remote switches, notice how the inner loop and outer loop essentially share the same space, but the inner section heading to the right remais parallel with the outer section.

The third photo is my old manual switch over the top of the remote switches, note the exit angle with the 1/3 section of 18" radius added, only the manual switch overlays with the same angle as an 18" piece.

The fourth photo shows the proper inner loop, but I added my old manual switch. Note the angle of track heading to the right, they are not parallel to the outer loop like they should be. (again, the exit track angle is not correct).

I am sending some photos to Atlas to see if they can shed some light on this.
 
Jason, as I said, Atlas has changed the geometry of some of their switches over time. The exit angle, properly called the diverging route, looks like it's about five degrees sharper with the old switch than the new switch. Unfortunately, that Atlas track plan has been around for ages. I remember the very same track plan from when I was building layouts in the early 70's. I doubt that they went through it and checked to see if the newer switches would actually work as presented in a track plan that called for the older switch. I'll be interested to see what response you get from Atlas. It looks like you've done everything right to me, it's just that Atlas didn't update their track plan. This is one of the reasons I say that Atlas track plans should be regarded as a general outline rather then the precise plan they make it out to be.
 
Ugh, thanks for the encouragement on the layout, I thought I was missing something really simple, so it makes me feel better from that respect. But, bottom line, it looks like I'll be using flex to get this to work out. I sent Jim Miller from Atlas an email with a bunch of photos, we'll see what he thinks, I'll let you know.
 
For whatever it's worth I would like to let you know that I attempted to plug in the Trunk Line layout into the RTS software and had the same problem. There is no way you can connect all the loops properly using the current standard Atlas pieces shipped in the kit.

Since this is going to be my reference layout as well I plan to use flex track to get around some of the issues.

hdk
 
Here is the response from Jim Miller at Atlas below. I doubled/triple checked everything and I get the same result. Will likely ship my snap switches to Atlas, as that is the problem as far as I can see.
As a sidenote, does your program already have the diverging angles built into it, or is it measured and entered into the system? For some reason the diverging angle is the issue.


Jason,


I apologize again for the delay, but at long last we do have an answer to your question. Our chief mechanical design person assembled the track as described in the Atlas layout book #9 for HO-6. As you can see from the attached photograph, when assembled as described in Book #9, the track fits together the way it should.



I don’t know exactly what to tell you, but here are a few suggestions.

The track will not fit together properly unless you use EXACTLY the same quantity and size (length and/or curve radius) of Atlas–brand track sections and turnouts called for in the Atlas drawing of layout HO-6. I know that you said that you checked all of the track. However, since we got the track to do what the plan intended it to do here at Atlas, you will need to assemble your track in exactly the same way that we did, i. e., following the HO-6 plan. I recommend that you remove all of the track from your table, turn it upside down, and read what is written on the underside using a VERY BRIGHT light. If you cannot read what is stamped on the underside of a turnout or track section, you should replace it with the proper piece of new Atlas track.

Are you using any non-Atlas track? I ask this question because in one of your photos we spotted what appears to be an 18” radius curved terminal section that has the screws to which you connect power in the middle of the terminal section. Atlas has never made its curved terminal sections with the terminal screws in the center; I have no idea if non-Atlas track will work.

Atlas Snap Switches and Atlas Custom Line #4 turnouts look somewhat similar, but they are NOT interchangeable. You MUST use Atlas Snap Switches in layout HO-6.

The trackwork on the left side of layout HO-6 does NOT make a 180 degree turn. If you have the trackwork at the bottom of this layout parallel to the edge of the benchwork, the track at the top will be heading slightly inwards until you add the 1/3 18” radius sections specified in the plan.

Please don’t be discouraged. A number of our customers take a while to get their track the way they want it.

Jim Miller
Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc. and Atlas O, LLC
378 Florence Ave.
Hillside, NJ 07205
USA
(908) 687-9590
jmiller@AtlasO.com
 
Eat My Own Words

Jason,

I took the kit out of the box and put it together on my floor. My turnouts are #850 and #851. It may not be the most beautiful job but it did come together.

Like I said earlier it is not coming together in RTS but there is play room to make it work. Maybe if I have enough time during the weekend I will wire it and run a train on it and will let you know how well it performs.

Hope it helps.

Hdk
 
Hopefully you're up and running soon.
This is why we wanted a pic of the entire layout. Sometimes someone will see something that is overlooked.

1 lesson to be had. Always have a section of flex track available. These kind of things are easily fixed with them.

Good Luck
 


Thanks for looking into this, still not sure what is happening with my layout though. I used Atlas snap switches number 850 an 851 also, and here is what I get on the lower left corner, with all the pieces marked. Hopefully you can read the labels. Hadek, is this the same as your layout book? Can you post a photo of the lower left corner of your layout? It looks like everything is the same, but just to make sure. On my plan, starting with the snap switch on the outer loop on the bottom left, moving left, one 2" straight followed by one 1 1/2" straight piece, then going into an 18" radius terminal joiner. I would post a photo of the entire layout, but it doesn't come out close to what is stated in the plan. Maybe the plan book I have is not updated. Did you buy the entire kit from Atlas? Also, on another sidenote, if you add a 1/3 section of 18" rad to the diverging angle, then lay a full piece of 18" rad over the top starting at the outer tip of the 1/3 section, do the curves line up perfectly? Mine do not, check out the second photo, its an 18" radius term joiner over the top of the snap switch.

I did slice up a piece of flex into about 14 pieces to make it work, but at this point I need closure on the issue, I still think the diverging angle is not correct on the pieces I received. Plus, and probably most importantly, I'd like to start with a tried and true layout, I'm not sure if the alterations I've made with the flex will work in the long run or not.
 
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