Atlas standard switches manufacturing defect?


Engauge18, did you ever get that NMRA Standards Gauge that you ordered off of E-bay???

When looking at your pictures in your post #16, it STILL looks to me like maybe your wheels are out of gauge (most likely too narrow?). Without a head-on shot to look at though, kinda' hard to tell for sure. 😕
 
Agree might be wheel gauge but look at first photo the wheels look to be fine on the track before the switch

I was going to suggest maybe the switch not setting flat but he says this happens on several switches

Get that NMRA gauge then check the wheels and the track gauge thru the switch

If they are out of gauge Atlas may replace them
 
Agree might be wheel gauge but look at first photo the wheels look to be fine on the track before the switch

I was going to suggest maybe the switch not setting flat but he says this happens on several switches

Get that NMRA gauge then check the wheels and the track gauge thru the switch

If they are out of gauge Atlas may replace them
Yeah, but keep in mind that out-of-gauge wheel sets (especially under-gauged) always look fine and work fine on straight and curved track.
It's when they get on turnouts (switches) and crossings that they start rearing their problematic little heads.

I find it hard to believe that seven new turnouts could all be defective as far as track gauge goes. Unless their is an actual "bump" between the plastic rails that cause the flanges to ride up over the rail heads (and I'm not really seeing this in the pictures). If there is, then there definitely is a molding defect or similar in the turnouts, and I would send them back to Atlas for replacement or refund. I guarantee, Atlas would want to know about it if so.

But I agree, wouldn't hurt to check BOTH the wheel gauges AND the track gauge of the turnouts.
 
Engauge18, did you ever get that NMRA Standards Gauge that you ordered off of E-bay???

When looking at your pictures in your post #16, it STILL looks to me like maybe your wheels are out of gauge (most likely too narrow?). Without a head-on shot to look at though, kinda' hard to tell for sure. 😕
I ordered it, but vendor is on vacation. Will take a couple weeks to arrive.

Well take another set of pics and post.

Just uploaded a vid to YouTube

 
Wow every car tried to derail So if the run fine on the other turnouts It sure looks like a problem with those turnouts
How to fix them unsure without having one in my hands Maybe a dremel tool but very carefullly
Maybe wait till you get your NMRA gauge so you can check everything
 
Good idea!
Just posted to Y/T, here's the URL:

Thanks for the video. Very helpful watching the problem in action.

The cars seem quite affected, but the loco, not so much. Although the loco looked like it bumped up and down a little, more so on the rear truck than the front truck.

I have an N-scale layout with Atlas code 55 track, turnouts, and crossings. Code 55 track is finer and much more scale-like than code 80 track, and as a result, is very intolerant of out-of-gauge wheel sets. I wonder if Atlas didn't have some new molds made for their code 80 turnouts, and tightened up the rail clearance tolerances a little bit. That could be one possibility that we're seeing in your video.

Regardless, I guess we won't know for sure until you get your NMRA Standards Gauge. That should tell us what we need to know.
 
Thanks for the video. Very helpful watching the problem in action.

The cars seem quite affected, but the loco, not so much. Although the loco looked like it bumped up and down a little, more so on the rear truck than the front truck.

I have an N-scale layout with Atlas code 55 track, turnouts, and crossings. Code 55 track is finer and much more scale-like than code 80 track, and as a result, is very intolerant of out-of-gauge wheel sets. I wonder if Atlas didn't have some new molds made for their code 80 turnouts, and tightened up the rail clearance tolerances a little bit. That could be one possibility that we're seeing in your video.

Regardless, I guess we won't know for sure until you get your NMRA Standards Gauge. That should tell us what we need to know.
Here's a second video that shows the occurrence fun a few different angles.

Thank you again for your time!

 
Thanks for the second video. I may know the problem now. Or rather, problems. I believe there could be up to three problems, and not just one.

First possible issue: "Pizza-cutter" wheel flanges. This is the slang term applied to older N-scale wheel flanges, where the flanges are far larger in diameter than they need to be. This was industry standard in the early days of N-scale, where code 80 track was the norm. Compare the depth of the flanges on your passenger cars with the flange depth on your locomotive. In reference to sitting on the rails, are the passenger car flanges quite "deeper" from the top of the rails than the locomotive flanges? If your passenger cars are older, most likely they are deeper.

Second possible issue: Atlas may have cleaned up existing molds or made new molds for whichever turnout size you have. If you have a way of checking the depth between the plastic frog rails and comparing this depth with both your new turnouts and older turnouts, you may be able to verify if this is an issue or not. Something as simple as a mechanical pencil may work as a stand-in depth gauge. Also note, this is one measurement that an NMRA Standards Gauge does NOT measure.

Third (highly) possible issue: Your wheel sets are out of gauge (most likely too narrow) on your passenger cars. The guard rail side on the turnout will prevent the wheel flange on the frog side from from riding through the rail space in the frog. This wheel flange has no other option than to bounce up and ride on top of the frog rail.

Until your NMRA Standards Gauge arrives, another way of looking closer at your problem is to carefully pop out one of the axles from a passenger truck. Roll it slowly through a frog on a problem turnout, and see if you can determine how many of the three issues you have. Also roll it through a turnout where don't have the problem. By doing some careful, up-close visual analysis, you may be able to diagnose the culprit(s).
 
I watched the video several times At the very end kinda out of focus I know hard to do like you say But it sure looks like the wheels are just a tad on the narrow side for gauge Do you have any other rolling stock besides the passenger cars If not just use one by itself and use the old manual by hand and slowly roll it thru the switch try to take just a photo from the end view maybe that will show something It's hard to believe that many switches could be bad If I had a bad spot on my track I used a 6 wheel truck and rolled it by hand thru the area so I could see the cause

Paul was replying while I was giving my 2c worth they don't look to be the old pizza cutter wheels but hard to tell What brand are the cars maybe that would give a clue
 
Last edited:
Also note, this is one measurement that an NMRA Standards Gauge does NOT measure.
According to this I think it does

NMRA Gage Assures Trouble Free Operation Of Your Model Railroad​

This gauge helps you to make adjustments to rolling stock and track to end annoying derailments. It will check for accurate track and switch dimensions, wheel spacing, flange depth, tire width and wobble. Also checks for structure clearance so trains can pass without hitting tunnel portals, station platforms, scenery, etc. This is a precision measuring instrument manufactured of stainless steel by the National Model Railroad Association. Instructions included.
 
According to this I think it does

NMRA Gage Assures Trouble Free Operation Of Your Model Railroad​

This gauge helps you to make adjustments to rolling stock and track to end annoying derailments. It will check for accurate track and switch dimensions, wheel spacing, flange depth, tire width and wobble. Also checks for structure clearance so trains can pass without hitting tunnel portals, station platforms, scenery, etc. This is a precision measuring instrument manufactured of stainless steel by the National Model Railroad Association. Instructions included.
I'm pretty sure they're talking about the depth of the wheel flange itself, and NOT the depth of the flangeway between the frog rails. And for that matter, I'm guessing that the depth of the N-scale wheel flange is just the NMRA's recommendation based on their RP-25, HO-scale fine-scale standards, and may not necessarily reflect N-scale reality. o_O
Otherwise, they'd have to make a special standards gauge for each manufacturer's wheel flanges and turnouts. :eek:
Which would then in effect mean, there really ain't no standard. Understand? 🤨🤪;)
 
OK well guess I've been using it wrong for the last 50 years

https://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices

However scroll down to RP-2 Track gauges Click on the link to the pdf file scroll down to D Says Flangeway Depth Correct

That's what I all ways used it for when making home made turnouts
Okay, in checking out your NMRA link, I stand corrected on the flange depth. It IS for the flangeway depth between the frog rails, and not the wheel flange depth. As a matter of fact, it is a minimum depth clearance. For RP-25 wheel contours, that is. The depth can be even greater with no ill affects.

In my post #34, scratch my comment about the wheel/flangeway depth (the whole first sentence). However, since I have NMRA Standards Gauges in both HO-scale and N-scale, I stand by everything I stated in the rest of that post.
 
Here's a second video that shows the occurrence fun a few different angles.

Thank you again for your time!


Firstly, I doubt if you could have bought seven turnouts all with the same defect.

From what I'm seeing, MikeGTW is correct, your wheelsets are out, an NMRA gauge will solve the problem
 
Last edited:



Back
Top