Athearn Genesis rolling stock more expensive than everyone else now?


Part of the problem is some (possibly an extremely vocal few) modelers that demand manufacturers offer up only cars that are 110%+ prototypically accurate RTR models, no matter how much they cost. The rest of us are then forced to help subsidize their extreme-detail obsession. I think Genesis is currently higher than most extreme-detail models because for the most part they first sell to distributors, who then mark them up to full retail. In order for the manufacturer to realize the same profits on a given model, they have to either charge more through the middle man, cut costs (not an option as described above), or begin selling direct, like the other manufacturers.
 
GeeTee said:
Imagine a world in which all auto manufactures have ceased to exist except for Lamborghini , Ferrari , and Rolls Royce.

(You walk into a Lamborghini Dealer)

But the price that Ferrari wants for their.......Sir , your not here to buy a Ferrari ,your here to buy a Lamborghini ,If you would like to place an advanced reservation for one of out beautifully crafted cars , we would be happy to take your order. We let you know when its ready for you to pick up.

(You walk into a Rolls Royce Dealer)

How much does ...? (the salesman turns and walks away ) ( you turn and look at hostess by the door ) ...if you have to ask how much you can't afford it.

You leave and move to Cuba ( where they just keep driving the same old cars) .

Any of this sound familiar ? Thats pretty much the way things are in model railroading.




As long as they keep ordering in batch lots from overseas and continue to sell everything out in 6 months , there's no incentive for them to reduce prices or discount. I do think some manufacturers / importers( Walthers being one) , have made an attempt to control prices ,because they can see the handwriting on the wall.

I think its interesting to note that boutique kit manufacturers (Westerfield ,Tichy,ect ) in the US have NOT had huge price increases ,their prices seem to be relatively stable .
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MicroTrains is USA made too if I'm not mistaken and they seem to not have huge increases either BUT, as you said, if they continue to sell out of their products at the prices they sell them for, why lower them. ScaleTrains did do many budget modelers a favor for the operator line.... I am not a budget modeler, just grumpy that things are getting more and more expensive and I am not being paid any more in my line of work than I was 2 years ago.... :p
 
I think the industry went through some consolidation in years past , and I suspect that a lot of the price is to service the debt on the acquisitions. Some of which didn't do so well.

Horizon (Athearn MDC , Tower) recently bought out Hobbico (2018) and they need someone to pay for it. They may still be servicing some of the debt that was discovered in the Tower acquisition.
 
New production Tangent freight cars are not $43 as claimed earlier. The 4750 covered hoppers are $48.95 and the new 40' boxcars are $52.95. And the are selling out so someone is buying them. Same with the afor mentioned Athearn Genesis GATC 2600 CF Airslide hoppers. And have you seen the MSRP of the upcoming Atlas 5250 4 bay covered hoppers? Yeah! An eye watering $72.95! There is something to jaw about!

Athearn prices for some models announce coming next year are showing some major increases. For example, the singles of 45' Fruehauf trailers are MSRP $34.98. I bought 2-packs of those when last produced 8 years ago for $26. That's nearly a 3x increase.

Anyway, I understand many here may not find value in these high detail freight cars. Probably they are not being marketed to this crowd. Those Genesis GATC Airslide did sell pretty quickly as I watched several vendors, so it appears there are customers elsewhere who feel differently.

I suppose when I retire, I'll join the whiners club too. But people have been complaining about the new higher prices in the hobby for many years now. It happens especially when there is an increase. I have been surprised how long Tangent has held their MSRP at around $44 for over 10 years. Only in the past year have the prices gone up.

But there are factors like inflation, blamed partly on over generous stimulus money, and container shipping cost now triple what they were and production costs in China. And we can complain about the cost of a lot of things, but there are economical alternatives. I was shocked that new pickup trucks are around $60k. But I see lots of them on the road around here. Apparently sales are brisk and I've read car companies are mostly selling trucks and SUVs. I was pleased my wife found me a used Prius for under $6k with only 67k miles. I don't have to have a new Mustang, but I do enjoy some of the nice rolling stock being offered by Tangent, Genesis or Moloco if they fit my modeling era.

There are lots of options to fit all budgets and tastes in the hobby. That's good isn't it?
 
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GeeTee said:
Where new is concerned , No not really.


At some point you have to say enough is enough , no more paying $50 for 25cents worth of plastic. If you don't they'll keep raising the price till you do.
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Not true. ScaleTrains, Athearn, Intermountain, Accurail and Walthers, by way of example, continue to offer budget oriented rolling stock. I've seen quite a bit show up in stock at modeltrainstuff in recent weeks including Athearn Roundhouse, Walthers Mainline ($24), Walthers Trainline ($15) Accurail kits, Atlas boxcars ($26)

As Early Pitts would say, Wake Up Amurica!

Over the past 20 years apparently there isn't enough saying enough as evidenced by continued production of high fidelity models. Rather than moan about it, ignore what is not of interest and focus on what works for you.
 
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while it's not rolling stock, I did just take delivery of the Genesis Amtrak P42 from them. Wow is all to say. Most accurate and incredible P42 out there. Cost nearly $300 though for the DCC/Sound version :(
 
Sir Robbins, I can top that. A pair of the new Athearn Genesis GP-18's . Paid roughly $520.00 for the pair I have. Totally love em. William (L&N Castle).
 
We seem to have this discussion every couple of months or so.

"The hobby is dying, nobody builds kits, younger people aren't coming in, yada yada yada.... " No it isn't. I belong to a large club. We have plenty of younger members, most who have joined in the last couple of years. At my LHS, I see plenty of younger people in the train section. The hobby isn't dying, but it is changing.

"Everything is so expensive now, younger people can't afford it, retired people can't afford it." SOME young people and SOME retired people can't, however the average model railroader is between 50 and 60 years old. This group is typically at their peak earning years, and has disposable income. They drive the market. It should also be noted that the higher end stuff, Genesis, Tangent, Rapido, Scale Trains Rivet Counter, etc. aren't your only choices. There is lower cost stuff out there, not to mention a huge second hand, as well as a thriving "New Old Stock" market.

The new highly detailed stuff is so expensive! Yep, it is, however these manufacturers are only providing what the market wants. The market decided it wanted highly detailed prototypically accurate models a long time ago. The market also decided it wanted more RTR. Not so much because people don't want to build any more, but probably because of less hobby time. Let's face it, it takes more hours of work to make a living these days than it did in 1960. I tend to buy common items like rolling stock RTR, and weather it up, and save my kit building time for special items I can't get any other way. I have to budget my hobby time just like my money. 🙂

On the pre-order system: No there is no deliberate under producing. No disrespect intended, but this is the perception of someone who doesn't understand how the business works. If you're trying to sell something, the idea is to sell as many as possible and maximize profit, agreed? No sensible businessman would deliberately under produce. Can you imagine this conversation: Sales Director: "Hey Board of Directors, we can sell 10 million of these widgets and make $4 million. Instead let's make 5 million and cut our profit in half. Great idea, right?" BOD to Sales Director: "You're Fired!" But seriously, how to determine that? Build too few and you leave money on the table. Build too many and you're stuck with what doesn't sell. The preorder system gauges market interest. If there are enough preorders, they do the project, build what gets pre-ordered plus maybe a few more. Remember that as a manufacturer, you take these pre-orders, have the models built and before they leave the dock in China, you pay for them up front. You don't see any money until they are sold, so you're bearing the risk. If at the end of the process, there are a couple thousand models sitting on your shelves, well, there goes your profit! You have to blow out the surplus at a substantial discount, maybe break even or worse, take a loss. Guess wrong enough times and you're out of business! The brass manufacturers have been doing it this way for decades.

Tichy, Westerfield, et al pricing stable? Pretty much, but then how many new product announcements have you seen from Tichy? They're making their money selling stuff that has been around for years. Their tooling is paid for. Westerfield? A resin kit manufacturer, like all resin kit manufacturers, a small family owned business. Probably not an apples to apples comparison with Horizon Hobby or Scale Trains, but still... resin kits are in the 45-50 buck range each, less trucks and couplers, and have been for years. You're paying the same or more than for a top line RTR freight car. Great stuff, but they make specialty items and cater to a subset of a fairly small market. The last pair of resin kits I bought cost me right at $100.

I think the bottom line is: These high priced models are selling. Selling out. If the average age of the typical model railroader, or more important, the spending power declines, then the market will react and we'll see a shift to more less expensive offerings.

I can't afford a Ferrari, a Lambo, or a Rolls either, so I don't sweat how much they cost. There are still plenty of Chevys, Fords, Toyotas and Hondas out there, not to mention all of those used cars!
My $.02
 
As has been noted in this thread, production of model railroad stock is turning into pre-production orders for the most part. That's one of the expense saving efforts of the industry to provide for a shrinking demand. This can only go on for so long until it's just not worth it to produce a run of hoppers, locos or passenger cars. Manufacturing will turn down proposals for designer's model railroad items and the hobby begins the rapid slide into oblivion. The small owner designers may still be around, but with the complexity of their resin kits, new hobbyist just aren't going to catch the fire for that kind of work.
As far as I'm concerned, when my daughter pulls the plug on my gasping corps, she can shovel all my stuff into the bins for the land fill.
 
When I first started in the model railroad hobby I traded a 3 cent price for a unknown 0-6-0 and I was unemployed at the age of 11. I did "odd" jobs working for people in their yards or at a horse ranch one summer for $1.00/hour. When I started my first "Real" job at 16, I was paid less than a dollar per hour and no over-time since nursery work was considered as exempt from over-time rules in those days. I worked a 60 hour week in the summer.

I still managed to purchase model railroad kits, supplies and other items for my 4X8 plywood empire.

BTW, I still have that engine in my parts drawer and my first BB engine a A and B unit Milwaukee Road.

If a person searches swap meets they can find rolling stock at relatively inexpensive costs. A purchased a box of seven mainly BB box cars, weathered, KD couplers, and metal wheels for $35.00.

I am retired now and at the plateau of my model railroading with a 95% completed layout and little need for any more of anything. But, I do have two Scale Trains and one Rapido locomotives on order!!! That's my bad habit of purchasing locomotives for my collection of over 100.

Greg
 
D&J RailRoad said:
Manufacturing will turn down proposals for designer's model railroad items and the hobby begins the rapid slide into oblivion.
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Or it will revert to what it was before - a niche hobby that turns toys into models using DIY techniques. That wouldn't bother me. I was quite happy buying fairly generic representations that allowed for significant production numbers and hence moderate cost, use some detail parts and bag of tricks to make it into something cool. I applaud prototype specific models for those who can afford them, but I am not among that group.

Recently, a loco that I've been yearning to model came out - it was never available in any form even brass. Also no chance of an easy kitbash. Also it would fit in perfectly with my roster. Also it's a drop dead gorgeous work of art. I waited 20 years for it. But - the price tag was an emergency stop. I downloaded all the images just for reference... if it had been a $150 unit that I could dress up and throw a decoder in, I'd have been in like Flynn.

Cars, yeah, well the main thing I want from them is that they work well. Good weighting, good axles and wheels, couplers that reliably couple and uncouple on a working railroad... I am simply not paying $50 for a car. Not ever. Not any car.
 
Sir Robbins said:
I posted what they were selling for at my favorite retailer, not their actual MSRP.....
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Probably older production Tangent, before prices went up newer production items. I've noticed shops only take off a dollar or two from Tangents own website pricing. One exception is Lombards who sometimes blows Tangent models out for around $10 off. But in general, my point stands up.
 
If the $50 price point is sticking with you, well, it's a number alright. Just like $3 per gallon gasoline. Or $6 per pound ground beef. Or higher property taxes, increased insurance premiums, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum. Have you priced a pickup truck lately? :oops:

If your income isn't keeping up with the steady increases in price, you're not alone. Simply put wages have not kept up with inflation. The discounts from offshoring production that kept our models cheap when the push to China began have all but disappeared as the manufacturers and labor force there demand more for the work they do. And so the price increase is passed on.

Nothing says you have to buy the Genesis line from Athearn. It is, after all, a highly detailed and thus more expensive product than the RTR or Roundhouse product lines, both of which continue to grow and offer models at a more modest price point.

Many times products in the RTR or Roundhouse line come close to duplicating products in the Genesis line: for example, the riveted bay window caboose is a Southern Pacific prototype similar to and a contemporary of the Southern Pacific bay window caboose in the Genesis line. It's not as detailed, but if you want a Southern Pacific caboose for the rear of your train, take your pick. Likewise, you can buy a GP50 in the RTR line (formerly in the blue box) or you can buy the Genesis version of the GP50. They're both great models. One is going to be more expensive and more detailed and delicate than the other.

Other products in the RTR line are real gems and build up to accurate models of the prototype, so there's no need to spend the extra money on a Genesis-level model. The FMC 5347cf boxcar is a great example of this. I have several of these that I picked up for 30 bucks or less.

Other manufacturers have two or three parallel product lines with different detail levels and price points if you're not into the hyper-detailed and delicate stuff. ExactRail has their Evolution and Platinum product lines and ScaleTrains has the Kit Classics series alongside their Operator and Rivet Counter lines. Walthers Mainline is paired with the highly detailed Walthers Proto. Atlas Trainman is the less detailed and less expensive companion to Atlas Master.

Still others choose to target only one market, such as Tangent with their highly detailed no-compromises models (which are pretty inexpensive for what you get, honestly). At the other end of the spectrum is Accurail, who continue to offer modestly priced kits that can build up into gorgeous models with a few after-market parts, details and decals. Or they can be left alone and they're fine models. In my opinion, some of the most inventive engineering and tooling design is happening at Accurail, and that innovation still results in affordable models that look great. The PS 4750 covered hopper posted above is a great example.

If you don't mind building kits, there are thousands of blue box kits on ebay for cheap. If it's just a boxcar you're looking for and not necessarily a Berwick, Evans or Pullman built boxcar you can easily find something fitting that description.

We ran our models with plastic wheels for decades before metal wheelsets were standard and they did fine (Accurail, Intermountain and Front Range plastic wheels not so much), but if you want to replace the plastic wheels with metal Intermountain and Tangent make some good looking and performing wheels that are an instant upgrade to those older kits.

Of course if the kit still has horn hook couplers you'll want to swap those out with Kadee couplers, which are still the best after all these years.

The point is this: you can still participate in this hobby without spending a ton of money.

You don't need to have exact replicas of the prototype to enjoy weathering or operating or collecting. You can choose to do that, but you'll spend more money chasing down the models that more accurately reflect the details of the real thing.

You also don't need hundreds of cars or locomotives to operate. A couple quality reliable locomotives gets the job done. You're not going to fit much more than those locomotives and maybe 20 cars in even the most generous sidings on the majority of layouts I've seen from large home layouts to permanent club layouts to modular layouts. There's nothing wrong with having more than that if it makes you happy, but it's not a requirement to enjoy the hobby. The "keeping up with the Joneses" vibe is strong in this hobby, but it shouldn't make you think your own pursuit of happiness in the world of model railroading is wrong or lesser than anyone else's.
 
Even before the inflation starting whacking us this year, I have heard pickup trucks are crazy expensive. But Pickup trucks these days are being sold and used as semi-luxury cars. People in the Washington DC west suburbs commute to work in them but people in this area make very good salaries so they can afford to be much more frivolous than in the olden days, both in cost for the vehicle and the cost of gas.

As a general rule, my income hasn't kept up with the cost of model trains, although I've made some gains allowing me to add some nicer models and engines with DCC sound to the fleet partially supplementing with proceeds from selling models as well. Those gains have now been largely cancelled by the rather higher jump in prices after a few years of modest increases.

Only recently has Tangent raised prices on their models after more or less holding same/similar prices for 10+ years. Athearn has been a leader in price increases during the past 12 months, primarily with the Genesis freight cars, once selling in the $3x.xx price range now close to $50. The primed for grime models are particularly expensive with the 45' z van trailers now around $34.98 (regular) and $39.98 (primed for grime) for single trailers! Not too many years ago 2-packs were $26 so that's roughly a 3 fold price increase! Very nutty. I've been watching Athearn announcements over the past 12 months and am happy to say there are very few models announced that I want or need and a great many are high priced re-runs of models I have already.

OTOH, Moloco continues to hit the ball out of the park with some very nice boxcars, but now priced at $58.99, I'm trying to limit purchases to one each of a few favorite boxcars, bar the recent surprise run of SP and SSW repaints, which are perfect for mid-late 1970's and later. Tangent continues to offer some fantastic models.

It's true nothing says you have to buy Genesis models but I prefer, if possible, to buy fewer accurate models than more "stand-in" models. I do buy lower detail models such as Accurail if the model is a good match to a real freight car, and as some note, with some weathering they can blend in well with higher detail models.

Regarding the blue box based Athearn SP bay window caboose, yes the model is based on the real cabooses but it does have some dimensional shortcomings like the roof ends, so if you are a big SP fan, that may bother you. A savvy shopper over the past 8 years could obtain unlighted Genesis bay window cabooses for as low as $20 (I got one at that price). Of course the new runs are $99 with lights.

As you point out, some of the RTR Athearn models are quite nice, bordering on Genesis level. In fact the GATC Airslide hoppers were in the RTR line and fantastic detail with fine end cages. During the last year they were moved into the Genesis line by adding air hoses and lift bars selling street price around $48-52 dollars. The RTR FMC covered hoppers (former MDC) have been upgraded with wire grabs and finer details and are nice models, although the prices on those has risen substantially. I managed to obtain all but the most recent run for around $25 each or less.

I agree, Tangent models are quite nice for the price. Even those on a modest budge might find them a nice addition to their fleet, even if only to get a small number.

But as you point out, it is possible to enjoy the hobby without spending a lot of money. Their are ways of stretching a budget and hunting for deals at train shows and HOSwap and ebay, with some patience and care. Many have overbought and sell items to clear out unneeded models so deals can be had, or at least not getting gouged. When I sell models, I usually sell them for a bit less than what I paid and I usually paid a discount price.

There are lots of options out there these days, which is why this is part of the golden age of the hobby. And historically, the hobby has never been considered as cheap. But there are ways to enjoy it at many budget levels.
 
riogrande5761 said:
There are lots of options out there these days, which is why this is part of the golden age of the hobby. And historically, the hobby has never been considered as cheap. But there are ways to enjoy it at many budget levels.
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This is why I scoff at comments that the hobby is dying. It's not dying. There are more options available than ever before, and those old Athearn blue box and MDC Roundhouse kits - while it's true they are not being produced anymore - are still out there in abundant quantities at every train show, swap meet, on ebay, even on some hobby shop shelves still. The "shake-the-box" kit option is still an option if that's your thing. The least expensive options in this hobby today provide better quality than we ever had in decades before.

About that old Athearn bay window caboose... Intermountain (Centralia Car Shops) makes a nicely detailed version of that caboose, if you absolutely have to have the riveted version (I did!). I replaced the trucks on mine with Genesis caboose trucks because I just wasn't happy with the appearance of the stock trucks, but otherwise it's fine as it comes out of the box.
 
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