Anyone do their own photo-etches?

[tankist]

your layout looks good to me.
AFAIK while the etchant is fresh it will work somewhat faster. it will slow down as it gets impregnated with more and more material (hence the need for temperature increase). reduce time in the solution perhaps (you surely figured this out)? thats what nice about fish tank heated etch vessels- constant conditions with time being the only variable.
with that i see some etch perfectly successful details in non heated, non agitated, just plain vessel.

on side note, i preparing to etch my own PCB , got the blanks and the solution, making final touches on the layout itself. instead of photoresist I will try toner transfer method to mask the board. will report of my experience

 

[ianacole]

It looks the same - I've found it's not hard to find. But, what "color" is it? [Can you see your work when it's submerged?]

As I recall, it was clearish/yellowish, until the first reaction, then it turned dark.

 

[fast_ian]

your layout looks good to me.

Thanks! A positive comment from Tankist! Woo-hoo [Although, wait until you see #2! ]

AFAIK while the etchant is fresh it will work somewhat faster. it will slow down as it gets impregnated with more and more material (hence the need for temperature increase). reduce time in the solution perhaps (you surely figured this out)?

I figured out, as noted above, that it was most likely a combination of temperature, agitation level and obviously time - I just don't know which is the most critical - Time is indeed obvious, but I'm also going to throttle back the agitation level - As I said above, I believe the underside (front) of the work was almost "sand blasted" into oblivion by the agitation. As for temperature, the next one is going to be done at ambient - It seems I need to *slow* the process down - At least until I gain more experience.

on side note, i preparing to etch my own PCB , got the blanks and the solution, making final touches on the layout itself. instead of photoresist I will try toner transfer method to mask the board. will report of my experience

Cool! Very interested to hear how that goes - Applying and exposing the photoresist is something of a PITA - Dry transfer would be nicer - Assuming it has the required resolution. Is it clear? [If not I can see registration being "difficult".....]

Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

As I recall, it was clearish/yellowish, until the first reaction, then it turned dark.

Bummer!.....

It would be really helpful to be able to see what's happening without shutting off the pump, pulling it out and rinsing. Any chemists out there know how to make "clear" ferric chloride?

Cheers,
Ian

 

[tomstockton]

One of my biggest gripes about this hobby -- and about life in general -- is almost NOTHING is ever as easy at it looks! But the great thing about forums like this one is that folks seem to work together and break a difficult project down into (relatively) small and easy-to-do steps. I see pictures of a fine model, and I think "I could never do something that well." But then I see the step-by-step instructions. I look at the first one and say "I can do that." Then I look at the second one and say "I can do that one, too." And so on and so on... and before too long, I have a finished model that looks (somewhat) like the one the "expert" did -- and the major reason mine doesn't look as good is because I don't have the experience... yet. But with those step-by-step instructions and some needed experience -- I CAN do that!

Ian, Tankist, et al -- keep posting your step-by-step instructions -- and sometimes, the pictures / commentary on failed steps are just as instructive as the successful ones!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

 

[fast_ian]

One of my biggest gripes about this hobby -- and about life in general -- is almost NOTHING is ever as easy at it looks!

+1

In fairness, they did make a big fuss about needing practice, so at least it wasn't a complete surprise!.....

.... and sometimes, the pictures / commentary on failed steps are just as instructive as the successful ones!

Indeed! - Despite being a "failure", I did learn a lot & now *know* it can do what I want!

Having said that, here's the latest rev of the artwork - It's ~2" square this time to allow more aeration around the "outside".

It also features much more "sprue" and a couple of areas of only "half etch" - The famous Ford oval should be there with "raised" name & border (I think! )

Comments & suggestions, thoughts etc always welcome!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[RW&C]

You might want to beef up the sprue points just a bit where they meet the ovals. If it over-etches a bit, those points will be the first things to go.

Good luck with the etch, can't wait to see the results.

 

[fast_ian]

You might want to beef up the sprue points just a bit where they meet the ovals. If it over-etches a bit, those points will be the first things to go.

Very good spot! - Thanks for the comment

It's actually a result of saving the screen grab as a jpg - Here's another one zoomed in - I don't believe I've got any less than ~0.25mm - *But*, I am checking again

Good luck with the etch, can't wait to see the results.

Thanks! I'll keep posting given a comment or two.......

Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

"Final" artwork;

- The first pic combines the test print (onto standard inkjet film) on the bottom and the "real" print on the top - It really is much denser.......

- The second is after registering the two halves of the inkjet print - This satisfies me that nothing "moved"......

Now to register the real film and prepare the work

Cheers,
Ian

 

[SABRR]

Fast Ian,

I am following this with great anticipation. I too need to do some photo-etching on brass to make my own steam locomotive parts.

My only question at this point is what software are you using? Is it INKSCAPE? Or did the MM kit come with software?

Secondly, where are you getting all your artwork from?

Thanks! Subscribed and watching with great attentiveness.

Manny

 

[fast_ian]

...I too need to do some photo-etching on brass to make my own steam locomotive parts.

Very cool!..... Whilst it seems I'm the only one doing it here (!), it's nice to know I'm not the only one (lunatic?) that's even considered it

I'm using the .005" brass for my "testing", as ultimately I want S/S - So these tests may be more appropriate to you than me in the end!...... I haven't found any comparisons between etching brass -v- S/S - I *suspect* S/S is gonna be "slower", but that's just a WAG (?)

My only question at this point is what software are you using? Is it INKSCAPE? Or did the MM kit come with software?

Yep - Inkscape. No s/w in the MM kit, but their instructions say (abbr);

Almost any computer drawing program can be used... as long as it lets you draw boxes, ovals, circles, straight & curved lines, and lets you add text.

IMO, Inkscape is right up there with the *great* open source projects - JMRI, Linux & Openoffice spring to mind! FWIW;

- The "pure" B&W tires my (old) eyes - I laid it out it in blue & less blue.....
- My initial "do it 12" and scale it back" approach isn't required - Draw it real size, on an 8.5x11 page - SVG gives infinite zoom! [The zoomed jpg above was at ~1200% IIRC.]

Secondly, where are you getting all your artwork from?

Your second only Q

I'll post the only thing I "stole" after I switch 'puters.....

Cheers,
Ian



Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

....I'll post the only thing I "stole" after I switch 'puters...

From page 1 of a Google image search for "Ford logo png"......

Loaded into Inkscape, shrunk down - A *lot*.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[tomstockton]

I have to admit I am not familiar with Inkscape, but I assume it is a vector-based drawing program. I do have both Corel Draw and Adobe Illustrator -- I am much more familiar with Corel Draw, have owned versions of it for nearly 15 years. I would hope that one could use Corel Draw to lay out the artwork; my brain is getting too full to be learning yet another drawing program! HA!

Regards,
Tom

 

[fast_ian]

I have to admit I am not familiar with Inkscape, but I assume it is a vector-based drawing program.

I wasn't either and it is indeed vector based.

I do have both Corel Draw and Adobe Illustrator
....
my brain is getting too full to be learning yet another drawing program! HA!

Both of those suites were mentioned as "possibilities" in the instructions. [Another they mentioned I wasn't familiar with is "Daneba Canvas"]. As noted, as long it will draw the basics, allow you to group/ungroup and mirror, it will work just fine.

For sure, if you know your way around Corel you'll be generating artwork a lot quicker than me!..... My first attempt at rounding rectangle corners (something I think will help the etching process) needed a (quick) read of the *excellent* manual for example.

But, no need to learn yet more S/W!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[SABRR]

Thanks Ian,

I'm definitely going to get the same kit form MM. Thank you for being the pioneer with it.

As for software, I'll try what you used. If it doesn't work out, I'll get Corel Draw x5. It's just a penny to get the Corel.

Since I need to do boiler sides, cabs, tender shells, etc., I hope that this will be worth it.

Don't know unless your try. Keep up the good work and don't forget the pics. I'm a whore you know when it comes to pics!

 

[fast_ian]

I'm definitely going to get the same kit form MM.

Very cool! [You crazy spendthrift you ] Looking forward to "comparing notes".....

As for software, I'll try what you used. If it doesn't work out, I'll get Corel Draw x5. It's just a penny to get the Corel.

As you've gathered, I've kinda fallen in love with Inkscape! However, if I were familiar with *any* other vector-based drawing program I'd have used it.....

Since I need to do boiler sides, cabs, tender shells, etc., I hope that this will be worth it.

It's certainly capable - However, given those parts, do you know Autocad or similar CAD programs? - Inkscape/Illustrator etc are more "drawing" than drafting programs - If you've got your drawings in (eg) Autocad format, you may be better off staying there - Once you get your head around what etches and what doesn't, a CAD program may be better.

Don't know unless your try. Keep up the good work and don't forget the pics. I'm a whore you know when it comes to pics!

I was hoping to post a few of "etch2" right now.... Unfortunately, I once again over did the development step and wiped it all out!

I'm starting to suspect that the instructions were written in the depths of a New York winter, and my basic rule should be CA = 1/2 x NY timing

Cheers,
Ian

 

[SABRR]

I'm starting to suspect that the instructions were written in the depths of a New York winter, and my basic rule should be CA = 1/2 x NY timing
Ian

That's what she said!!!!

 

[SABRR]

Ian,

Keep up the good work.

In my search for some brass 44" drivers I came across this page. Scroll to the bottom. There are multiple links on self photo-etching. More info to help you along.

Thanks again for being the pioneer!

Manny

Backshop Brass

 

[fast_ian]

...There are multiple links on self photo-etching. More info to help you along.

Thanks again for being the pioneer!

Thanks for the encouragement & links! - *Very* interesting.....

Only one of the pages works for me ("Proto Trains home etching"), but he definitely got me thinking (Uh-oh );

- It's ~1' diameter & 4' tall! (300mm x 1200mm in new money) - Holding 4 liters of FC! Which he dilutes 50/50 - I was wondering about diluting this stuff - It's nice to know it's "doable".... Right now I probably shouldn't introduce yet another variable though!

- He also heats it to 40deg C [~104F] - Wow! And notes he'll etch 0.010 brass completely in 5-6mins! [MM suggest not even looking at .005 material for 5 minutes.....]

- Most interesting to me though was his "spider" mounting method [He drills 4 holes in the corners and mounts to those]. He's vertical, but is blasting at it from both sides.....I've already swapped out the supplied 'O' ring that holds the work holder at the correct height for a clamp - This allows the work to be moved around a little.

However, I'm thinking a single hole in the center of the work and an acrylic bolt threaded onto the end of an acrylic "stick" will allow my horizontal work to be rotated "at will".

More food for thought...... I've searched & searched but can't find any "definitive" graphs for etch time -v- temperature.

It may also be worth noting he's on version 3 of his etch tank!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

...Unfortunately, I once again over did the development step and wiped it all out!

A slight correction - I suspect I actually underexposed it this time - It was cloudy, so I went with ~30 seconds per side - I now think it never hardened properly and all fell off as soon as it hit the developer.... Hopefully the sun will be out today.... [Anyone know how much UV gets blocked by high clouds?]

Maybe it's time to try 10 minutes under a lamp.....

Cheers,
Ian