Another newb who should know better

[amddrafting]

But I don't.

I am thinking about venturing into the deep dark abyss of lost time, money, and sanity, also known as the world of Model Railroading.

When I was a young lad I used to have a brief obsession with this hobby. My grandfather got me interested. He had enough O, HO, and N scale track, engines and rolling stock to get started. My younger cousin and I used to set up the tracks and spend hours running our trains. From time to time my Grandfather would take us to hobby shops and train shows and we would be able to make a purchase or two. Eventually we had a great collection started at my Grandparents house. My cousin was HO and I was obsessed (still am) with N Scale.

Unfortunately my idiot uncle sold most of it during his addiction days to get some cash when he was broke. One of the biggest loses was this...

O Scale Lionel

Amazingly, last Christmas my dad found this train on Ebay after years of it being gone. We recognized it because the passenger cars were a custom paint job. My grandfather worked for PPG industries as manager of the automobile paint lab. After purchasing these cars, that were in poor condition, he had them cleaned and painted at the paint lab. My dad also recognized a distinct broken part on the engine that he remembered breaking So we have it again. This train will end up on a shelf in my "train" room as an homage to my grandfather. Though he hasn't passed yet... it is inevitable. He was the one who encouraged this hobby.

So I'm ready to get back at it. I've recently moved to a place that can actually have basements. The past 10 years I've lived in places that the soil will not allow basements. But we have decided to settle in this new location and I hope to build a house in the next 5 years and when I build my house I am going to build a basement with trains in mind. So I'm ready to get started collecting and buying stuff to get me ready to start on my layout.

Specs:
Dimensions - 4X8 with control center cutout
Scale - N
Road Names - Chesapeake & Ohio
Setting - Allegheny Mountains
Season - Autumn
Time Period - 1930's-40's

I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio but now live in Texas. My favorite place in the country is the North East. I love fall and miss it soooo much. That's why I plan on creating my own little version of that time and place. The turnouts on the bottom right will be for coal. I plan on creating a coal mine scene in this area and making the "mountain" in the upper right be the supply for the coal. The turn outs on the left side of the layout will be for other rolling stock and possibly and engine house or I may make this be the industrial destination for the coal. I haven't decided yet. I think I may end up adding more turnouts here.

The back of the layout will be elevated as if it were riding the cliffs of the Allegheny's. There will be a trestle bridge over a water feature on the upper left side. The center of the layout will be highlighted with a small town and there will be a couple of small house spread throughout the layout. There will also be a train station to give the option of putting a passenger train on the tracks.

I really enjoy long sweeping runs and really want to be able to have it running as if it were really going somewhere. I'm not much for a lot swtiching, but I think this layout incorporates a great mix of both.

Comments, questions, suggestions? I'm open... let me know what you think

Layout Legend:
Grey lines - Roads
Green lines - Elevations
Grey Boxes - Buildings
Black "U" shapes - Tunnel Entrances
Brown boxes - bridges

 

[Selector]

I think it is a nice layout plan. Good enough to get started considering you have a good idea what you want out of it. Should be fun for your orientation toward running and railfanning as opposed to switching.

You have some reversals of polarity to contend with, but aside from those, you should be fine. Just be careful when/if you are considering any grades with the numbers of curves you show. Keep your grades light and low, but I would work at having some changes of elevation for some variety, particuarly along the back 'straight'.

-Crandell

 

[IronBeltKen]

Welcome to the forum, ______________ (got a real name we can address you by?)

Too bad about your uncle selling all the old stuff, glad you got at least a few pieces back. Looks like you have a good idea where you want to resume the hobby, your farther along than most newbs. The 4x8 might be a good starting point until you get more space, but I'm sure --- if the mrr insanity really grabs hold of you like it did to me --- you'll want to expand beyond that.

Interestingly, I'm loosely modeling your childhood hometown because I love heavy industry, esp. steel mills; Cleveland still has a few of those. I'm doing the B&O's CL&W sub in the 1990's.

 

[amddrafting]

I wondering how difficult the polarity issues might be. I really wanted to be able to reverse the loop so as to make the track more versatile for "railfanning." (never heard that term before, but I like it )

The plan was to have the back 4' or so of rail be about 3" off of the flat base. I need to be able to clear the rail where they cross in the tunnel. from there it will grade down to about 1" or so at the front left. It's about 1/16 - 1/8 inch per foot of track. Not sure how that works out but hopefully that will be low enough grade transition. The "inner" loop will be on the flat board.

The name's Aaron

 

[amddrafting]

Interestingly, I'm loosely modeling your childhood hometown because I love heavy industry, esp. steel mills; Cleveland still has a few of those. I'm doing the B&O's CL&W sub in the 1990's.

That's awesome. Yeah, the rail system in Cleveland is just amazing. I loved going around those industrial areas as a kid and seeing the network of rails that weaved throughout the city. Are you incorporating the "Flats" area (the Cuyahoga River base)? It's now a party destination... clubs, restaurants, etc. But there are a system rails down there that is amazing. Quite a few draw bridges too.

Edit: This is the old LTV Steel Plant (I'm sure your familiar with it). Look at the mass of rails that run through that!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...672621&spn=0.046568,0.111494&t=k&z=14&iwloc=A

 

[fiend540]

Oh how I wish the Great Lakes area was still an Industrialized Meca that it was before my time. I'm thinking Cleveland is a lot like Buffalo now where the trackage in the area shows how busy things used to be but now is more of a stop point in between the big cities when it comes to rail traffic. Such a shame but thank god for modelers license right?

 

[amddrafting]

Yeah, no joke. A lot of my family has been hit hard by the move of industry out of that area. I really wish that area was flourishing though. I would be back there in a heart beat.

 

[UP2CSX]

Hi, Aaron, and welcome aboard. Another Cleveland native here. When's the last time you were back there? The Flats entertainment distict is pretty much closed down because Cleveland couldn't control all the gangsters that now inhabit the city. There's still a few small steel plants but most of the Flats is just a giant Superfind site. The bridges are still there, though, and still awesome.

I live in Alabama now after 35 years in California. The fall's down here are suprisingly like Ohio, with the trees changing nicely, but the weather is usually a lot nicer. We get about one inch of snow every few years, which is just the way I like it. I wouldn't live in the Cleveland area again for a million bucks.

I like your layout plan. Just enough track for some decent operation but lots of room for scenery. I'm a scenery guy too, and my layout is late summer/early fall. By all means, investigate DCC before going any further. This is the control system that is taking over many model railraods, and for good reason. No complicated wiring, you can run as many engines at once as your control station has power to give them, and things like reverse loops are handled with an electronic module instead of bunches of toggle switches. Check at NMRA web site. They have a very good introduction to DCC there.

 

[amddrafting]

Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely will check out the DCC.

I go back to Cleveland at least once every 2 years. All of my family is still there. Grew up in North Olmsted and Avon Lake. My mom and family all still live in Avon Lake or surrounding areas. My brother is the only other one who moved away but that's due to him being in the Coast Guard in Buffalo. We do get a bit of fall here in Lubbock and I love it. We don't have a lot of trees though.... nothing like the blood red maples that you get in Ohio. Favorite drive... I-90 east of Cleveland heading to Erie, PA mid October... absolutely amazing!

 

[fiend540]

Yeah, no joke. A lot of my family has been hit hard by the move of industry out of that area. I really wish that area was flourishing though. I would be back there in a heart beat.

Yeah I hear you. Once the wife graduates we are most likely heading south of Buffalo which is a shame as our family and friends are here but you got to go where the jobs are I guess. I will be glad to get rid of winter though

 

[IronBeltKen]

... This is the old LTV Steel Plant (I'm sure your familiar with it). Look at the mass of rails that run through that!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...672621&spn=0.046568,0.111494&t=k&z=14&iwloc=A

Yes indeedy Aaron, I definitely know about that place! It's the only mill I'm aware of that was ever served by CSX. My mill is a "what-if" scenario of the J&L blast furnaces being kept running [instead of demolished] and sold to an employee-owned enterprise called Erie Steel. I named my yard "Clark Avenue Yard", and a number of the towns along my mainline are named for some of those along the CL&W Sub. The model doesn't look anything like the prototype, but all the "elements" I want are in that area: a lakefront steel mill, and a single-track main line with numerous small lineside industries. Heres a few pics:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/CSX_road_slug/IronBeltBlastFurnace01/Erie_Steel_yard_view.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/CSX_road_slug/IronBeltBlastFurnace01/harborside_ops_mode_view.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/CSX_road_slug/IronBeltBlastFurnace01/harbor_w_fog.jpg

The "river" in the bottom image was extruded foamboard temporarily spanning the aisle with green cellophane over it. The haze was from Fog-In-A-Can, which I ordered online from a theatrical supply company.

 

[UP2CSX]

Aaron, I went back a few years ago for the first time in about 25 years. To say I was shocked would be an understatement. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is nice and the few clubs and restaurants still open in the Flats were fun to go to (although I felt a little safer armed - I'm a retired cop), but everything east from downtown out to Euclid looks like it has been hit by nuclear bomb. I spent part of my life in the area in Bedford, which was a nice suburban town in the 50's and 60's. It's now just part of the ghetto. The far out suburbs like Avon Lake are still nice as long as you forget that there's a war zone nearby. I do agree about the drive up to Erie in the fall. Rivals Vermont for fall colors.

I was born in 1946 so steel was huge part of the Cleveland economy. J&L, US Steel, all the big names, were up and running 24 hours a day. In the winter, you could tell which plant was running at the highest capacity by the color the snow turned to on the ground...pink meant J&L, light green meant US Steel...long before the days of the EPA, when smoke meant prosperity. I'm an NKP fan - the tracks ran about 300 yards from my house and there was still steam running until I was about 14. My grandmother worked as a rate clerk for the Pennsy and my uncle was a road foreman of engines for the N&W, eventually rising to vice-president of operations before he retired. I had many uncles and cousins that worked for the various steel companies. Railroading and steel
have both been in my blood since I was born but I could see the handwriting on the wall for Cleveland back in 1966, when I got married. My wife's parents lived in LA and we went to visit them for our honeymoon. Driving around with the top down on the MGB in November at 80 degrees was all I needed. We both quit our jobs in Cleveland and migrated to LA by April of 1967. The decline and fall of LA is a whole 'nother story. Anyway, enough about me, it's just interesting to see how two guys from the same place have such different views.

 

[stationmaster]

Aaron, nice that you were able to save, or should I say retrieve, some of those pieces. And it looks lik you have a plan. The one thing I would suggest, would to make each section of your layout open. That is, go with a modular layout where, some where, there seems to be a line going nowhere. But is for future expansion. That allows you to add, or expand without destroying what is already finished.

Corey, I was born south of Buffalo, Rome, NY to be exact. Ain't anything wrong with the area. Just invest in a set of snow shoes.

Bob

 

[amddrafting]

Ken - all I can say is WOW! I had a flash back upon seeing those pictures. That model is amazing and I love the ship. I was looking through models online last night and ran across a Great Lakes "Ore" boat and was wondering if you were going to incorporate one of those.... sure enough.

After finding that I almost wanted to change my plans. LOL. My step-grandfather used to work on the ore boats for Interlake Steamship Co., One of the largest ship companies on the Great Lakes. So I have a lot of memories of those boats. We have pictures plastered all over my parents house.

Jim, it is quite interesting that we could have such different views, but I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that I was born 30 years after you. lol. The areas you grew up in has, unfortunately, turned into ghetto. But the surrounding suburbs have focused on the urban/suburban development that most of other parts of the country have enjoyed while the banks were giving money out freely.

There has been much effort to clean up downtown and the surrounding areas over the past few years. I left Cleveland in May of 1999 to move to Dallas. I am amazed at how much has changed in the 10 years I've been here in Texas.

The thing I enjoyed most about the Cleveland area is the pace. After living in Dallas and Houston for the past 9 years... I can say I enjoyed the fact that Cleveland moved slower. Life there isn't about how fast can you get through the day. You could smell "fall" coming in the air. Hot Chocolate at High School football games. Highs of 80's in the summer time. Going down every day to swim, jetski, or fish in Lake Erie (which at one point in my High School days you could see to the bottom a mile off shore... very clean now). And there is always something to be said about the sports teams in Cleveland... we're fans till death... even though the teams should die a slow death.

I spent a lot of time downtown in my early 20's and never really felt unsafe, especially in the flats. It's just one of those... "know where to go and where not to." The Arts and Culture is outstanding. Their museums are some of the best I've been to. And their music scene is fantastic. The Cleveland Orchestra is world renowned. Then there is the Cleveland Clinic... heart transplant capital of the world. An hour or so away you have the greatest amusement park in the world (Cedar Point) and the islands of Lake Erie, which is like something you'd expect to see on the New England coast. Let not forget the Metro Parks (Rocky River Reservation).

Have I made my point yet.... lol I'm partial to the changing seasons. I would love for my daughter to be able to experience the joys that I had sledding, building snow men and snow forts, the beauty of fall, actually getting excited for the warm summer months, etc. Life was defined by the changing seasons. Halloween was always spookier with leaves blowing around in the cold fall air, You always knew it would be cold on Thanksgiving and Christmas there was usually snow. You knew that once Memorial Day came... summer had arrived. It was fantastic.

We moved to Lubbock in January and the first two weeks we were here it snowed. I was so thrilled. I forgot how much I missed it. We at least have changing seasons here now and a purposeful fireplace.

I get excited to go home when we do. I love Ohio and will always feel that is my "home"

 

[fiend540]

Aaron, nice that you were able to save, or should I say retrieve, some of those pieces. And it looks lik you have a plan. The one thing I would suggest, would to make each section of your layout open. That is, go with a modular layout where, some where, there seems to be a line going nowhere. But is for future expansion. That allows you to add, or expand without destroying what is already finished.

Corey, I was born south of Buffalo, Rome, NY to be exact. Ain't anything wrong with the area. Just invest in a set of snow shoes.

Bob

Oh no doubt I love the area, the sports teams (GO SABRES! ) and all of my family here. There are just inherent problems in the area when it comes to be a young couple looking for jobs in the professional world. Oh well maybe one day ny will pull it's head out of its over taxed/governed ass. Getting rid of the snow will just be a treat, although I will miss snowmobiling.

 

[UP2CSX]

Aaron, I think it does come down to the different times we lived there. I was there when it was at it's best and when it was starting to decline. You lived there when the decline had at least slowed and some attempt at reversal had been made. University Circle is a good example. When I was there, the area was so dangerous that people stopped going to the cultural attractions. They started their own private police force that was much more professional and competent than the CPD. Their nicknames were the "Green Hornets" becase thay had green cars with white stipes. I don't know if they still have that police force intact but I suspect they do since the CPD has declined into one of least professional and competent in the nation.

There are a lot attractions to living in Cleveland, especially the pace compared to the big cities in Texas, which would be my least favorite place to live. I still miss that first warm day of spring and the first snowfall but, after about five months of the stuff, you can get suicidal. You're right about sports fans though. I'm still a big Indians and Browns fan, even though the last time the Indians won a World Series, I was two years old. My dream, before I die, is that Indians will win another World Series and the Browns will actually win the Super Bowl, or at least get in one.

 

[amddrafting]

Sooooo... here's the deal.

The wife, child and I are moving into a rent house for the next couple of years until we can save up and build the house we want... namely one with my basement for the trains.

I went to the house the other day to inspect it and make sure it was what we wanted. There, in the garage, was this perfect little nook about 8'-10' wide and 12"-24" deep. Immediately I thought... what a perfect little place to put a work bench, but then the gears started turning and I starting thinking... SHELF LAYOUT!!!

I've been inspired by Ken and his fantastic steel mill and Spookshow's industrial layout. And I'm thinking about doing a small industrial scene in this area. I figured I would go modern diesels in N Scale. And... this would be a great way to practice for my Allegheny layout that I eventually want to build. Though I'm a railfanning kind of guy... I've been intrigued with switching as I've been researching. This should give me all of the practice I'll need for wiring, track laying, etc. Anyone have any good suggestions for a layout? I either want to do farming or heavy industrial.

Oh and I know what you're thinking... it's in the garage. If I do it I'll figure out a way to moderate temps in there... after all... I do work for a home builder.

 

[stationmaster]

A layout with a large grain elevator, like Central Soya, is neat. I have something similar on my layout back home. Not to the degree that I want, but it might get there,. Makes for a lot of car movement by the switchers.

Bob

 

[IronBeltKen]

Aaron, steam era -vs- modern diesel era - that's quite a contrast! The architecture is totally different between the two; and, if you plan on running 6-axle locos, you'll need wider-radius curves. Might be a bit of a challenge if you're short on space.

In your present situation (i.e. before you get your Dream House), I think the Transition era would be the way to go. Car lengths were shorter, 4-axle diesels were the norm while there was still some steam power to be found, there were many small businesses still shipping by rail, and all sorts of cool-looking structures (like coaling towers and water tanks) that had dissappeared by the time 3rd-generation diesels came out. And you could model C&O since it still existed back then.

Just a few thoughts, hope I didn't confuse you even more...!

 

[stationmaster]

Ummm, erhm, ken, you forget about the E-units, the PA's, the Centipedes, the big steamers were almost all *-8-*'s or larger, though there were a few *-6-*'s still lurking around. And you have also forgotten about the many compound steamers..... Wide radius turns are a must for most of them. I run it all on my "transition" layout. It's HO but the same theories apply.

Bob