All in perspective..


rodney mcgiveron

rodney mcgiveron

Member
G'day all...I won't mention any names but a fellow forum member gave me the inspiration to start off this topic and he's a highly respected member . WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR HOBBY IN PERSPECTIVE... He was concerned that this is not ALWAYS the case and he used the analogy " Go big or go home" that is creeping into the hobby a little more often. I recall very well how it started for me 7-8 years ago. I had a train set as a kid , can't recall what happened to it now but over time I went away from running a train.. One day about 8-9 years ago we had a Tasmanian N Scale modeller who had an Exhibition Modular layout (Rob Matthews) who visited and set up in the Town Hall.. I walked in there that Saturday morning in the cold early winter about 10am and finally left a few hours later as Rob and his adult son showed me all about his amazing set up...I WAS HOOKED...Although I didn't immediately rush out and buy ..it was maybe a year later after I 'discovered' EBAY..a model railway was always in the back of my mind. One day I found an $89.00 Thunder Valley N Scale train set on EBAY and bought it..I adapted an old kitchen table and soon I was running a train... It had begun..Once I saw my friend , Paul's HO items a few months on ..I was re bitten and decided HO was a better option for me..Over time I have added lots more stuff , built a less than ideal HO layout , pulled it to bits , switched to DCC , made tons of mistakes but enjoy every minute of it and through this forum have made some great friends and kindred spirits..IN PERSPECTIVE is crucial.. Let's not be guilty of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by suggesting "Only buy this or that" and embrace as we always do ANYONE who has an interest in this incredible hobby..Who cares if the interest is cheap toy trains, top of the line representations, prototypical or non prototypical layouts, scenery or no scenery , high end controllers or Plain Jane analog or even clockwork..One most redeeming thing is there are many first time greenhorns coming on board and often money is an issue to get started . In 99.9% of the time we encourage them to take their time , check out the options and do their homework and do exactly what they contact the Forum for and get advice...All I think we must consider is that budgets and circumstances are a huge consideration for new modellers and by continuing to keep the options we suggest to them in perspective will determine how deep they go with model rail in the coming years...This must ALWAYS be a primary thought as we post our suggestions..and why I appreciate this Forum as much as I do..Cheers to all...Rod...
 
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++++++++++!

To me, when I see statements that suggest the right way, the wrong way, the best way, the only way, etc. it makes me leery. And I see them far too often. This is a hobby you can start in a multitude of ways, with a huge range of budgets, and a vast range of focuses. Statements that are unequivocal like "The right way" or "go big or go home" are fundamentally exclusionary and confrontational, and a quick path to making the hobby seem unapproachable, intimidating, etc. I've been doing this hobby for 40 ish years, and a lot of what I do isn't "right". Someone tells me I'm doing it wrong, I laugh and ignore. But that's decades of confidence doing it my way. Those just approaching the hobby don't likely have such confidence.
 
Wow, after everything that has been said I have little I could add.

I am glad to be on a forum with such great modelers.


I agree with Rodney's original post completely, but I thought this was the best part.

rodney mcgiveron said:
...One day I found an $89.00 Thunder Valley N Scale train set on EBAY and bought it..I adapted an old kitchen table and soon I was running a train... It had begun...Cheers to all...Rod...
Click to expand...

I started with a ping pong table. No actually I started on the floor under a Christmas tree long before the ping pong table.

I can add my perspective, I see it that any beginning is a great start into the hobby. Even if your layout becomes worthy of the pages of model magazines, that cheap first set will more then likely be very special to you. How many things can you buy for $50-$500 that you can almost guarantee will still be special to you 20 years later? Make a kids Christmas special with a train set under the tree. You never know where that train set will lead.
 
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My parents were on a very tight budget, Dad was farming and Mom nursing and 5 kids in 6 years. Every penny was pinched growing up, we even used dried powdered milk and Mom would get the day old bread on Monday mornings. Sympathy not wanted here, it was a good education on living within one's means.

My train was the locomotive with pieces of atlas track assembled on the basement floor. I made that thing work and would switch up the track and save my 50 cents per week allowance money for train stuff. I don't have a clue where I got the transformer from. The hobby store was 30 miles away and I probably got to go there once every couple months.

This is reality for some starting out, or something like this, and that doesn't mean they aren't getting anything out of the hobby. When you grow up like this, it has an effect on your psyche and how you think for your whole life.

lasm
 
I moved from Lionel to HO scale when I was about 10. I always loved the railroads as I had relatives working on the railroads. When I went into the Navy, needless to say I had no layout but was always reading magazines about the hobby. When I got out, I was stuck in an apartment, living in Florida, with limited space, but did manage to build a small N scale layout.

When I finally moved back to Montana, we built a house, with, of course, a basement. A major priority. I incorporated my small N scale layout into a layout with about 16 scale miles of track between the main and branch lines. I was in pig heaven, for a while. This was in the late 70's and unfortunately the quality of N scale locomotives were not the best back then and also the availability of the road names I was interested in weren't available. It's a different world today in N scale.

I tore out the N scale and started building my present HO scale layout in probably the mid 80's. Before starting a lot of planning was done and it was probably a year before track work started. I chose to go with code 70 rail mainly because it really bothered me when I was in N scale and the track looked so oversized.

While Trackwork was going on, work on locomotives and rolling stock was also going on. I think planning was the most helpful part of the process. I knew exactly what type of railroad I was going to build, and stuck with the plan right up to today. Locomotives and rolling stock was custom painted for my freelance railroad. I think the best part of the whole process was the learning curve. When I started, I had an idea, but not all of the skills. As time moved on, I learned many different skills, many in the school of hard knocks, but things moved forward.

The learning process was great and a lot of fun. I got to learn a lot about custom painting, detailing locomotives and working on locomotives. Back then you were rather limited as to what locomotives were available. I started with Athearn locomotives and over time remotored them all with can motors and installed constant lighting. That was big back then. DCC was a dream than.
Atlas finally brought out some excellent running locomotives and I build up a fleet of Alcos, which were custom painted and detailed. While all this was going on, I was still learning more about the hobby.

Now, after over 25 years working on the same layout, where is it and why did it take so long? One big problem is that I have no hobby shops at all near me. We do travel a lot and while traveling, we would stop at different hobby shops as we crossed the country and I would stock up. (My wife would turn white when we found one) Progress was slow until recently when on line retailers started coming on line. The last yard and town has been put down and need to be detailed. As many know, a layout is never done. With the skills I learned from when the layout was started, I will go back and work on older parts of the layout and update things.

The one thing I did not do was to convert to DCC. I had given it a lot of thought but being that the layout was built as a switching layout and that I almost never run more than one locomotive at a time I decided to stay with DC. In out travels, we did visit many many other model railroaders, their personal and club layouts. I learned so much from these visits that helped me a lot. I also enjoyed operating on both small and humongus club and home layouts. I really did enjoy DCC and the ability to have as many as 20 trains running on a layout at one time. These operating sessions almost tipped my over to DCC. One friend who is a DCC nut even converted a Brass steam locomotive to DCC so I could operate it while visiting different layouts, but even he admitted that for my purposes, DCC really wouldn't be of any advantage.

I am fortunate as to have built up my locomotive and freight car fleet years ago not having to pay todays prices, but there have been a few temptations. I do consider myself fortunate that I have the room for a larger layout and for all the things I have learned over the years, but thanks to forums like this, I can still continue to learn, and from time to time help other modelers who are moving forward in the hobby.

We were all newbies in the hobby at one time. I can't say that I know everything because I don't, but if I can help someone with a question or problem, I absolutely will as many other people have helped me in the past. It is a very interesting hobby that includes a lot of skills, from carpentry, electrical work, kit and scratchbuilding skills and more. Unfortunately, many of todays kids are more interested in video games and other electronic devices instead of using their imagination and getting into the hobby.
 
I didn't notice (haven't noticed) anything posted that would deter me (nor the comment referenced), but I'm mature and self-confident (stubborn) to begin with.

For the past 5yrs. I've been working more directly with various building trades contractors and frequently hear "I'll tell you want you want" or "This is how you need to do it" and I've successfully done it the way *I* wanted it done...because I learned first, considered the alternatives, asked poignant questions, then made a decision. But, perhaps, I'm a "special case"(...heard *that* a lot, too....and not necessarily in a good way).

When it comes to model railroading I have *my* preferences, values, inclinations but I don't know to what extent I'm reasonable in those things or how common they are with others. Even if my ideas are a bit 'off-track' (hehe) I'll do them if the alternatives aren't "better"...for me. I tend to shoot for 'simple perfection' knowing Fate is going to shoot for 'complicated imperfection' and we end up at a compromise someplace in between.

However, everyone isn't me and I wouldn't suggest it a good idea to say something to the affect of, "I'll tell you what you want" or "This is how you need to do it". Instead, I find it more diplomatic to give a generalized observation/inquiry. For example, hypothetically, I might say to someone (don't really know if I would...making this up), "Sure you can start with a Tyco 'Harry Potter' commemorative train set. What about it interests you?" If they say, "Because it's on sale at the 'Big Box Store'" but they don't have a particular interest in Harry Potter then one can talk about lower-priced train sets that might lead to prototype modeling. If they say they love the Harry Potter movies then talk about modeling the Harry Potter themed fantasy settings (which, btw, could look pretty darn cool...dragons flying overhead, etc.).

Now, I'll admit, the 'mega layout' conjures up (still w/ the Harry Potter theme?) the idea of status among layouts. But, like a McMansion, bigger is (in my opinion) rarely better (to me) for most who do it. There's only so much time (and money) and the bigger the layout (I would think) the more compromises one has to make with Fate.
 
I belong to several forums and yes I have been ridiculed for collecting Tyco and other "toy" train items that do not meet prototypical standards. But I am pretty thick skinned and take it all with a grain of salt. To each his own. I look at it this way, the layout is my world and I am the master of this small universe, if I want it this way then that's the way it will be.
 
There nothing wrong with that, after all, it is your layout. I have visited a number of large club layouts and some have picked up Tyco, IHC and other brands of freight cars at swap meets to have rolling stock for their operating sessions and open houses. They did have to tweak them a bit and add Kadee couplers, but when they were weathered and put into a long train, you really couldn't tell the difference. Most of my rolling stock is Atheran blue box cars that I got years ago mainly because I had easy access to them and they are still on the layout and will be for a long time. I can't see paying big bucks for highly detailed cars because when they are put in a long train, you really can't tell the difference.
 
Retired Alex said:
I belong to several forums and yes I have been ridiculed for collecting Tyco and other "toy" train items that do not meet prototypical standards. But I am pretty thick skinned and take it all with a grain of salt. To each his own. I look at it this way, the layout is my world and I am the master of this small universe, if I want it this way then that's the way it will be.
Click to expand...

Seems to me the haters of "toy trains" are most offended when I say "have fun with your toys", but I am sincere.

No matter how much you paid for it, or time and labor you spent on it, it is a TOY!

By the way I love Tyco! My first set was a Spirit of 76 I love that train! it will be on my Lionel O gauge layout when Christmas day comes, hopefully much sooner! As you can see my train world is a bit different too.
 
logandsawman said:
My parents were on a very tight budget, Dad was farming and Mom nursing and 5 kids in 6 years. Every penny was pinched growing up, we even used dried powdered milk and Mom would get the day old bread on Monday mornings. Sympathy not wanted here, it was a good education on living within one's means.

My train was the locomotive with pieces of atlas track assembled on the basement floor. I made that thing work and would switch up the track and save my 50 cents per week allowance money for train stuff. I don't have a clue where I got the transformer from. The hobby store was 30 miles away and I probably got to go there once every couple months.

This is reality for some starting out, or something like this, and that doesn't mean they aren't getting anything out of the hobby. When you grow up like this, it has an effect on your psyche and how you think for your whole life.

lasm
Click to expand...
Different situation, but same result, lasm. Money was to tight to mention in my family as a kid. I got my father to agree that he'd put his pennies and nickels in a peanut butter jar i had each evening for the train fund. After about a year, i was able to get a $29 tyco set. And I think dad threw in the last few bucks even at that. At Christmas i might get two blue box cars. One birthday i got a grass mat for the 4x8. About a year in i got two atlas snap-switches; luxury!

Point is, yeah, i tend to call 'bs' on those who say go big or go home, or poo-poo on starter sets. 'Cuz my choices were starter set, cheap transformer, and an oval or nothing...
 
G'day back all...THANKYOU ALL...I'll say it again..So proud to be a small part of THIS FORUM because you guys know what you're talking about and the nay sayers of the lesser equipment would be well served by reading your great comments on this subject..A very few (thankfully) have very short memories and (many would have begun with an oval of track and basic running gear) and another thread early this year touched on a similar theme with 'rivet counters' they'd encountered on other forum sites and the responses then were just as insightful as these... The best part of our all encompassing forum is this..In EVERY scale we treat all with the same respect and if we're guilty of anything it's giving greenhorns TOO MANY SUGGESTIONS...but so what because as they wade through oceans of info , most if not all will make informed decisions and within reach of what budget they have to start up with...Sadly though not all rail forums are the same as ours and this is the reason I wanted to mention this matter.. and why I only use this one now...Can't be bothered with any other one..The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence...sometimes we have the best lawn..I know we do in this case...One of the Forum member suggestions for a start up check list for new modellers is a great thought too. What a nice idea...Cheers Rod..
 
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Totally agree with all the sentiments expressed here, with this one addition. Somewhere along the line in my youth I seemed to have internalized a message very like 'go big or go home. That might say more about my personal quirks than anything; I can't really blame it on external forces. But regardless of the source, it really kept me from doing much for decades. I had to reach my 50s to realize how much I missed opportunities during all that time to have gotten a small start with what ever space and resources I had then. All I can say is, better late than never....

Sent from the DairyStatePhone. Typoes and bad auto corrects included at no extra charge.
 
I got the go big bug in my early 20s and didn't shake it until my mid 40s... went through several layout - less periods during that time, when i "didn't have enough space," and shouldn't have.
DairyStateDad said:
Totally agree with all the sentiments expressed here, with this one addition. Somewhere along the line in my youth I seemed to have internalized a message very like 'go big or go home. That might say more about my personal quirks than anything; I can't really blame it on external forces. But regardless of the source, it really kept me from doing much for decades. I had to reach my 50s to realize how much I missed opportunities during all that time to have gotten a small start with what ever space and resources I had then. All I can say is, better late than never....

Sent from the DairyStatePhone. Typoes and bad auto corrects included at no extra charge.
Click to expand...
 
Hey now I have to say, there is nothing wrong with "Go Big or Go Home", but It's not for everybody.

In fact I have to thank the "go big or go home" crowd and all the modelers that stretch the envelop. My beloved Athearn Genesis Gold Chessie/B&O GP40-2 with Tsunami sound would not exist if not for them. They just need to remember us new model railroaders might not have a clue or sentimental reasons to purse the hobby in a different way.
I thought this was a good enough excuse to post this picture.

ATHG40678 Athearn GP40-2 GM50.jpg
 
Go big is fine. It's the 'or go home' that's the problem. Just sayin'...

Sent from the DairyStatePhone. Typoes and bad auto corrects included at no extra charge.
 
That is a nice looking piece of motive power, Louis....

Sent from the DairyStatePhone. Typoes and bad auto corrects included at no extra charge.
 
As a new MRRer I tried the Big or go home thing.
I tried to use every bit of space in my shop.
I started 3 layouts because I found a way to go bigger.
I soon got so confused I thought of quitting.
I finally cut my layout down to a size I could handle and one I could learn from.

Build the size you can handle big or small.
 
That's a very good idea. I have visited many model railroad across the country over the years and some were very large layouts, but those layout owners had friends who were willing to help build and maintain the layout. I did keep this in mind when I started building my layout in the early 80's. I chose to build a point to point layout with the track passing through the layout only one time.
I knew that I was going to have to go it alone because there are no other modelers in my area so I went for a switching layout. I did sacrifice having a longer main line run which I easily could have done with the space I had available, but ended up having a layout that is a lot easier to maintain. I also learned a lot during the building process. As you move ahead with your layout, you'll find that your skills and knowledge will increase over time. We were all greenhorns when we started into the hobby.
 
Yeah. I had a 40x50 layout at one point. Never even got all the track laid... this time I stuck to 14x14, and already much better progress and happier with it. Do have another 20x14 I could expand into, and mytrack plan allows for extension, but only if I get this part reasonably "complete" first
 
It does make things a lot easier sometimes to have a smaller layout, mainly to hone your skills. When I started I did have a definite plan, though not put down on paper. (My memory was a lot better back then) The layout is mostly along the wall, from 24 up to 39 inches deep, with one peninsula. over a period of over 25 years, the layout slowly progressed to where it is now. It was slowed by not having any hobby shops at all in my area, but what I learned from the beginning until now sure helped. When I get the last yard and town finished, it will then be time to upgrade older parts of the layout with techniques learned from the starting. A layout is never complete, but I am glad that I am not overwhelmed with a spaghetti bowl of track to maintain. With less track, I ended up having a lot more room for industries and other scenery features.

Sure is nice when a plan works out.
 
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