N scale sound through BIG speakers?

[rbwhale]

I have some questions on still another topic I know nothing about. I have two large bluetooth bookshelf speakers next to my layout with good bass. If I want to go about playing loco sounds through those speakers instead of tiny loco speakers is that possible? If it is, what do I need to acquire to set that up? I have DCC Zephyr for power on my layout, but I'll need some kind of basic sound card and bluetooth device, correct? Plus...?
Thanks
rbwhale

 

[Iron Horseman]

I have some questions on still another topic I know nothing about. I have two large bluetooth bookshelf speakers next to my layout with good bass. If I want to go about playing loco sounds through those speakers instead of tiny loco speakers is that possible? If it is, what do I need to acquire to set that up? I have DCC Zephyr for power on my layout, but I'll need some kind of basic sound card and bluetooth device, correct? Plus...?

The speakers don't have a direct wire input? Bluetooth seems a total extra step in the process.

 

[rbwhale]

That's a good point. I suppose I just don't want more wires running around to trip over in a very confined space. But I try to be open minded: if Bluetooth is too complicated I could wire it. I just don't know what to buy and what to connect to what. Do you have any insights?
Thanks

 

[Snowman]

What you are trying to do--want to do--is to run two different decoders off the same physical DCC Address. The (N-scale) motor+light decoder is in a locomotive, and a separate sound decoder (HO size or even O size would work fine) which is NOT in the locomotive, but located somewhere in, under, around your control panel (and Zephyr). You want to send the speaker output from the sound decoder (which would normally go to an onboard speaker), to a bluetooth transmitter instead...and then send that audio to wireless bluetooth speakers. Yes?

The sound decoder doesn't have to fit inside a locomotive or tender, so you don't have to have it onboard at all. It doesn't need to be small, either--a HO sound decoder would work fine.

I would hardwire the sound decoder it to the DCC track bus, connect the two speaker lines to a plug which would connect to an off the shelf bluetooth transmitter like this one:

Robot or human?

www.walmart.com

If you scan the pics for that item, you see it can take inputs using RCA plugs or a 3.5mm audio plug, and you connect the other end of that cable to the two outputs from the sound decoder.

Your scheme makes sense in that the speaker itself is already adequately powered, so you don't have to boost a hardwired speaker yourself. True too if you connect one of your speakers by wire.

I won't start listing decoders--the list is very long--but your sound decoder only needs to control the speaker. Any motor/light signals would not be connected, as the onboard decoder already does that. Lok-sound does have some, but other brands will too.

It's not that different from the way some steam engines are set up: Motor+light decoder inside the cab or boiler (because that's where the motor is), and sound decoder in the tender, where you can output to a speaker. Both on the same address.

 

[Iron Horseman]

That's a good point. I suppose I just don't want more wires running around to trip over in a very confined space. But I try to be open minded: if Bluetooth is too complicated I could wire it. I just don't know what to buy and what to connect to what. Do you have any insights?
Thanks

As snowman said. You would need a blue tooth transmitter to use as output from the sound decoder. I have never worked with those.

 

[rbwhale]

What you are trying to do--want to do--is to run two different decoders off the same physical DCC Address. The (N-scale) motor+light decoder is in a locomotive, and a separate sound decoder (HO size or even O size would work fine) which is NOT in the locomotive, but located somewhere in, under, around your control panel (and Zephyr). You want to send the speaker output from the sound decoder (which would normally go to an onboard speaker), to a bluetooth transmitter instead...and then send that audio to wireless bluetooth speakers. Yes?

The sound decoder doesn't have to fit inside a locomotive or tender, so you don't have to have it onboard at all. It doesn't need to be small, either--a HO sound decoder would work fine.

I would hardwire the sound decoder it to the DCC track bus, connect the two speaker lines to a plug which would connect to an off the shelf bluetooth transmitter like this one:

Robot or human?

www.walmart.com

If you scan the pics for that item, you see it can take inputs using RCA plugs or a 3.5mm audio plug, and you connect the other end of that cable to the two outputs from the sound decoder.

Your scheme makes sense in that the speaker itself is already adequately powered, so you don't have to boost a hardwired speaker yourself. True too if you connect one of your speakers by wire.

I won't start listing decoders--the list is very long--but your sound decoder only needs to control the speaker. Any motor/light signals would not be connected, as the onboard decoder already does that. Lok-sound does have some, but other brands will too.

It's not that different from the way some steam engines are set up: Motor+light decoder inside the cab or boiler (because that's where the motor is), and sound decoder in the tender, where you can output to a speaker. Both on the same address.

Thank you so much. I had not considered getting a larger scale decoder but, since size is not relevant, it makes perfect sense. Once again I'm so appreciative of all of the expert advice I've received from forum members. You guys are awesome.

 

[ctclibby]

Ima late to the party on this one. Why use Bluetooth at all? Since the decoder can be anywhere, direct connection to speaker should work. Well, that is if the speaker already as some sort of power amp included. If not, simple power amp should work although I don't know about the fidelity of the cheaper ones. Years ago I worked with one of the guys that helped with develope PFM's sound unit. He had the output of that going into his 500W stereo system and he liked stuff LOUD! Building would rumble when his steamer sounds would play. Fun fun!
Edit: on second thought, is there not some sort of feedback from the DCC decoder to the sound decoder as to what the engine is doing? If so, that will be missing on the remote device. Guess if the remote sound decoder is a combo unit it won't matter?

 

[Snowman]

Bluetooth: He didn't ask about it, but I do think you could pair the bluetooth signal to a pair of earbuds, as with a cell phone, instead of a bluetooth speaker. Voila! Walkaround sound, and with volume control at the touch of a finger (or however your own earbuds do it). I won't wake up the kids or the wife at 3AM either.*

[* this is also why many of us "sim-racer types" race with headphones instead of speakers]

That could also be much louder than the sound available from any onboard speaker, particularly a N-scale speaker. It's single channel sound though, so don't expect stereo quality.

And now that I'm thinking about it...hmmmm. Maybe run a motor+light decoder, and TWO sound decoders all of the same physical DCC address. One N-scale sound decoder and speaker onboard...and a second one broadcasting over bluetooth. Or wireless, etc.

Lotsa possibilities there..................

 

[rbwhale]

Bluetooth: He didn't ask about it, but I do think you could pair the bluetooth signal to a pair of earbuds, as with a cell phone, instead of a bluetooth speaker. Voila! Walkaround sound, and with volume control at the touch of a finger (or however your own earbuds do it). I won't wake up the kids or the wife at 3AM either.*

[* this is also why many of us "sim-racer types" race with headphones instead of speakers]

That could also be much louder than the sound available from any onboard speaker, particularly a N-scale speaker. It's single channel sound though, so don't expect stereo quality.

And now that I'm thinking about it...hmmmm. Maybe run a motor+light decoder, and TWO sound decoders all of the same physical DCC address. One N-scale sound decoder and speaker onboard...and a second one broadcasting over bluetooth. Or wireless, etc.

Lotsa possibilities there..................

"Lotsa possibilities there..." True, and they make my not-particularly-tech-minded-head spin. All I want is some nice bass and better fidelity through my Bluetooth powered speakers. And, maybe, a subwoofer, although when my wife starts objecting if my N scale SD-40-2 begins shaking pictures on the walls askew I may have to go to the ear buds.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Snowman]

Glad to help, and I hope, if you try it, you'll let us know how it goes. I'm curious, as, until you asked the question, it had never occurred to me it might be possible (I'm interested in trying it myself with earbuds).

A couple or three followup thoughts: ctc libby points out there might be a feedback loop or a way to tune the sound part of the DCC signals and what the locomotive is doing. I think he's right, and I recall it being an issue where steam locomotives are concerned--the "chuff" sound supposedly comes at the wrong time in the cycle compared to the way the rods are moving. I do think there is a way to fix this--I would guess adding a time delay o the sound output so what you see and what you hear visually match--but that's just about all I know right there. It may be a problem that can't be fixed using two separate decoders though.

Shouldn't matter, IMO, as much with N-scale, where not only is it harder to see, but you are effectively further away too. Won't be an issue at all with diesels.

The decoder audio signal will be single channel. You will want to tie both signals on both sides together, rather than keep them separated, as with a typical stereo setup. So the red and white center pins should be tied to the red sound decoder output, the outer shells to the black.

Last: The nature of sound is such that deeper bass sounds are harder to locate than are higher pitched sounds, which is why a stereo or surround sound setup sports two, four or even more small speakers, but only one woofer. In this case, you may find you can pair only one of your speakers to the bluetooth signal, but not both. Yes, you can pair two earbuds to your cell phone, but that also depends on them talking to each other as part of them being a single "pair" themselves. Your speakers may not be paired in the same way (to each other), so you may only make this scheme work with one of them...but that should suffice. I hope.

Good luck with the project if you try it.

 

[ctclibby]

Another thought occurred; you may have distortion if ya just connect the sound decoder output to the input of some speaker that is powered, of if ya have a power amp between the two. The output impedance of the sound decoder is gettn ya as it needs to drive some impedance value...4 to 12 ohms; check the spec sheet. Talk to an audio guy as what to do as you may be able to kludge something together. Probably some sort of op-amp that impedance matches the decoder output then give you a somewhat pure sound wave for input to the amp or powered speaker.