Best ditch lights for Kato CP GP35


diesel

Active Member
I was rummaging through my ancient purchases and found a perfect condition Kato GP-35 in narrow chevron strip, Action Red livery (used around 1970's AFAIK). It's a DC locomotive. First thought was to add sound but I'm trying to use up the good decoders I have before buying new ones, and the EMD sound decoder I have is older and would be too much of a challenge for that unit in my estimation. But, I found a no-sound DASR decoder that was a drop in solution, fits perfectly and leaves tons of room for all kinds of lighting.

Now to aesthetics and styling... I'm not a rivet counter but I don't want to see any standout differences from the prototype. CP specified substantial modifications to most locomotives that it ordered. Some are not obvious, but many create travesties if they're not done right. I need to relocate the headlights to the short nose, put the bell there instead, and install platform mounted ditch lights.

Since it's been 20 years since I looked at such a project, I wonder if anyone can recommend a best solution for the platform mounted ditch lights? I would prefer warm white LEDs there.

Also opinions on the best way to do the nose and rear headlights. On the Kato, they're integrated with the number boards in the light pipe. I want to use the existing light pipe to light the number boards only, and run the headlights separately.

Also not necessarily asking for advice but comments are welcome on the planned truck (inspection) and cab lights. I decided rear marker lights would be cool, but just carrying it too far. These should all be relatively straightforward. Just some drilling and placement of LEDs.

On the prototype, the main reason the ditch lights are platform mounted, is that the roundish pilots don't leave enough room for lights. I have those pilots in brass casting, easy to place and really "look CP".

Also, this experience will help me with BCR locos, they go really crazy with four headlights on the nose and also ditch lights to boot. I think it's because they encounter a lot of wildlife like moose and deer and really need to see the track ahead in all kinds of weather.
 
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Just wondering, did they use ditchlights in the 1970s? As far as parts, the Walthers catalog was always a good place to start. Or Miniatures by Eric since you are doing Canadian things. I think the numberboard/headlight assembly is different on locomotives with the bell mounted there instead of the headlight. IIRC, he bottom of the protrusion is flat and doesn't have the rounded bit in the center where the light would be.

After a 2 minute image search, the above is partly correct. It depends what number you are modeling, at least 5016 and 5019 have the rounded bit but most others don't.
 
Thanks for the feedback. That's an interesting question about the ditch lights. I will go and investigate. Now that I think about it, the GP-35 had a low nose as a stock feature so there was never any low nose conversion. That may have affected things. Some locos had shop upgrades. My time frame is not necessarily 1970's, but the narrow stripes are. Any repaint has the wider stripes. I was hoping not to strip and repaint the shell. The actual layout is supposed to be set in British Columbia, when I visited I noticed an incredible number of independent roads operating in very close proximity if not on the same tracks. This gives me an excuse to run CP, CN, BCR, SBC, BC Hydro, there is even one US road that ran up from Washington State, I'll have to look that one up, thanks for the nudge to my memory. Bless the SBC, the yardmaster saw me photographing and put me on a local job a crew with an SW-9. Those were the days. Anyways... I think things that fit between about 1985 and 2000 would look about right. Before the army of new gen power came and sent so much great iron to the recycler.

I already have Miniatures by Eric ditch lights in my collection, but they don't have LEDs. Sometimes though, it's possible to do something yourself that is better than anything that you can buy. It's so much easier with the Alcos, you just drill a hole in the pilot and place an escutcheon, and you're done. I'll have a look at those to see how you could illuminate them. I've seen ditch lights around enough, I was sort of hoping to just buy it pre-made but now you've got me thinking...

The road number is 5012 5021. I overlooked the image search idea, that kind of detail on the internet precedes my revival of interest in this. I will try that myself. I shot a pair of them in Vancouver maybe 20 years ago, finding the slides would be a challenge now though. My first impression of the Kato numberboards is that they don't protrude as far as the usual CP numberboards, a shallower angle to them. But that's unconfirmed. I'll have a look today. I follow the realtor's approach to presentation... there is a pyramid of flaws. The more obvious deviations you avoid, the less likely anyone will catch the smaller ones.

Edit - LOL, I'll be dipped in ... the CP GP-35's have pilot mounted ditch lights not deck mounted... but for BCR locos I will still need some deck mounts. What makes it confusing, there are the Soo Line GP-35's that were acquired with the merger, now repainted in candy apple red. Those do have the deck mounts. Also I see that the prototype 5021 has the rounded bit where the headlights were removed - sure saves me a job.
 
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Ditch lights were added in the late '70s-early '80s.

A unit with the early 1968-1975 5" striping likely wouldn't have them.
 
The actual layout is supposed to be set in British Columbia, when I visited I noticed an incredible number of independent roads operating in very close proximity if not on the same tracks. This gives me an excuse to run CP, CN, BCR, SBC, BC Hydro, there is even one US road that ran up from Washington State,

Great Northern ran into the Vancouver area from Washington state. Later Burlington Northern and now BNSF. (BN in the 1970s.) With all the mergers that went into creating BN and BNSF, that actually gives you a wide range of equipment and road name options to include on that railway, depending on your era.

Note that BC Hydro Railway (BCH, formerly British Columbia Electric Railway (BCER)) became Southern Railway of British Columbia (correct reporting marks/initials SRY). That's well after the 1970s time frame your GP35 would represent, so it would be BCH, not SRY in your time frame. (If you are limiting a time frame at all.) If you're modeling a later time frame or wider range, then the BCH and SRY equipment will be mixed together - it's the same railway.

Also note that British Columbia Railway was Pacific Great Eastern until 1972, and did not rename to BC Rail until 1984. So for a 1970s(ish) layout you can (and should) mix BCOL and PGE equipment for that road, and not have any of the later BC Rail logo on any of it.

Also speaking of dates, CP Rail stopped using the "MultiMark" in November 1987, so any CP units should have some version of the MultiMark paint job, or the older maroon and grey paint which was still common through the 1970s as the CP Rail red was only introduced in October 1968.
 
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Yeah, I think it was the Abbotsford yard where I was, they told me about the BNSF connection at the other end of the yard. Thanks for that background info. But, I've already steeled myself for the removal and conversion of 5" stripes on the loco to the more modern 8"(?), and only on the nose/rear not on the doors and so on.

In fact, the time frame should stretch or conform to the locos and cars that I have. I began to collect them after my visit to Vancouver but I cherry picked things that seemed economical or cool rather than on facts. :) I am a stickler for decent build and performance though. I am not rich, but when I saw a sound equipped MP-15 SRY 151 (Montana RailLink colours), I couldn't say no because I toured the cab while I was in Abbotsford! Other than that, I have a wide body BCR brake van, an SW-1200 in yellow/w/red arrow BC Hydro colours, and a good assortment of Walthers bulkhead flats, with custom loads that I bought direct from the maker at a show. Also some plug door box cars with locale appropriate livery. I can't justify new purchases especially at the current prices. So I'm definitely trying to upgrade and clean up my existing stock before I add anything new. Oh yeah, there's an RDC that I foolishly stripped down - but I think it can be saved. I have a Kato SD-40 in BCR colours but it's missing handrails and other stuff. I'm saving that for later.

Actually there is a golden project that I'm working up to... I have an undecorated sound equipped C-420 with a plan to make that BCR too. The proto had a really weird paint scheme, red white and blue. Some kind of transitional scheme I guess. That will have to wait until I get more organized.

This leads me to think in terms of a late 1990's time frame. I think CP sold off most of its GP-35's by then, but hey. The Kato is an absolutely superb runner, especially with the silent decoder. Kato made it easy to detail the cab interior, which is rare. I'm planning to take full advantage of that, there will be a cab light connected to the decoder. I think tomorrow I'm going to do a deep dive on the existing paint on the model to see which if any layers will come off. At the moment, I'd be happy if I could remove only the black and white and then decal it properly over the red base layer, with a little touch up here and there. The last two attempts at paint removal here didn't go well. If anyone has dealt with actual Kato paint removal, I'd like your advice. I think the factory paint they're using now is a little different.

What kind of power do you think BNSF would have sent up there in 1998?

P.S. I satisfy my interest in CP maroon and grey in N scale, DC only. That's a whole different ball game.
 
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I erased the 5" stripes. I noticed that electrical contact cleaner melts ties. Luckily not in a super critical place. So, I put some on a Q-tip and tried to erase a bit of overspray on a non-visible area. It worked perfectly so I went ahead and removed all stripes from the cab and body. The multimark is still there, so the back is white. It would take black decal stripes and the front white stripes of the correct size. The rear number got erased by mistake so I see it as an opportunity to renumber if it seems right.

Now - I am not suggesting that the fluid is safe to use on all models - I'm just saying it worked on this individual model. Always experiment with any new technique before applying it to your latest project. Ask me how I know.

The ditch lights on the prototype place it almost at the deck edge and right in front of the top step kick plate. That's a bit inconvenient but I'll figure something out. I am not sure but I think ditch lights might have become mandatory for any loco at some point on some railroads.

By the way, if I recall correctly, the C420's were not painted quite like the locos after that. I did encounter an online story about that, to the effect that one of them was the first to be painted in the 1985 colours. Adjustments were made, although the colours were the same. Compare:
C420 C40-8M

But here is where the story gets interesting. The decals I have that match BCR C420 631 are with a Microscale decal set 87-931 for BCR wide vision cabooses. Now that I think of it, I never tried to follow that story. I just have the decals.
 
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I've made some headway - I made a spreadsheet of CP's geep 35's. From prototype photos it is not impossible to narrow down the unit numbers and features. Probably it will not be exact, but should land sometime in the early 1990s as planned. Here is the model so far. The serious work is on the rear - although it makes sense to keep the small multimark, the headlights need to be rotated 90 degrees and stripes extended to the top:
IMG_20210805_112002.jpg
IMG_20210805_111953.jpg

Where does this leave me? Well, units 5010, 5011, 5012, 5015 and 5016 are plausible and 5015 comes the closest, matching the small multimark, headlight dimple, and bell by the dynamic brake grill. I have to go back with a toothpick and clean out the paint from the grooves on the cab. Here's sort of how it should look:
5015 5010
 
Here is the model so far. The serious work is on the rear - although it makes sense to keep the small multimark, ... stripes [need to be] extended to the top:

Not with that version of the small multi.

The later 1979+ version of the small multi, with the 8" stripes, covered the entire height from the deck to below the radiator grills.

The version of the small multi on your unit is the non-standard application known as the "Ogden Multi", which was applied around 1974-75 on some units when the full-height "large multi" and 5" narrow stripes was still standard. The rear stripes on this variant only covered the height of the multi, as shown (correctly) on the model. 48 units total in CP's entire fleet are documented to have been painted with the "Ogden Multi" including GP35s 5013, 5019, 5021, & 5024.

1974 "Ogden" multimark:

1979 small multimark:


If you want to paint the unit in the 1979+ wide stripe/small multimark you'll need to remove and repaint the multimark on the model, as it's not the right height.

GP30/GP35 roster page:

BTW I couldn't find any information on ex-SOO GP35s that actually made it to CP colours.
 
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By the way, if I recall correctly, the C420's were not painted quite like the locos after that. I did encounter an online story about that, to the effect that one of them was the first to be painted in the 1985 colours. Adjustments were made, although the colours were the same. Compare:
C420 C40-8M

But here is where the story gets interesting. The decals I have that match BCR C420 631 are with a Microscale decal set 87-931 for BCR wide vision cabooses. Now that I think of it, I never tried to follow that story. I just have the decals.

The paint on the linked C420 is the early scheme, referred to by some railfans as the "hockey stick" scheme for those angled elements. Other units such as M630s, SD40-2s and M420Ws at least got this paint scheme as well so it's not unique to the C420. The wider white stripe shown on the C40-8M is the later version. Again applied to pretty much all the unit types they had. The latest/last paint scheme that BC Rail had was solid blue.


BTW, cabooses also came in both "hockey stick" and "wide stripe" versions depending on when they were repainted from the original two-tone green. (And many never did get repainted)
 
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Thanks for the roster link, that is very illuminating. Ok well, I see what you mean about the small multi height. I missed that. I do have the multimark decals in the correct height but now I'm wondering if I should just leave it off and go with the pure action red/ white stripe version. It certainly would be easier to decal. But then the "CP Rail" lettering would have to move rearward. I would just still need to choose a plausible unit number. I have a Canadian roster book somewhere but I can't find it. Maybe after all is said and done, re-doing the multimark decal might not be that bad, considering I have to do the back anyway...
 
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If you with the post-1987 no-multimark scheme note that the rear end is now red and white stripes, no black, with that scheme.

Photos on that site should show at least a few units repainted in those colours. (I think one of the photos you posted yourself above had a GP35 in those colours just cut out of frame coupled to the subject unit...)
 
I did some more looking at prototype photos. I'm now thinking the target date should be about 1990. It will have the small multimark, not the Ogden one. I decided that there are many unit numbers that would qualify, even the original 5021. Mainly now, it's about detail options. I'm going to list them here, so I have a backup in case the back of the sales slip I wrote it on goes missing. :)

Paint:
-multimark decals rear sides, rear b/w 8" stripes
-nose 8" stripes
-add frame safety dots and step stripes
-decal numberboards
-weather everything

Important Details:
-rotate rear light housing 90 degrees
-add ditch lights
-add nose lights
-fill headboard light and place bell there
-add larger CP style sand filler hatches
-speed recorder on fireman side truck
-CP pilot front and rear
-coupler bar
-air hoses
-CP style handrails (bodge existing or replace all?)
-MU stands (hmmm might be molded to the handrail assembly, need to check...)
-winterization hatch top
-add Nathan horn

The existing Q fan over the dynamics seems much too big, it looks like the CP units have the next sized down fan, i.e. the same size as the second fan from the rear over the rad. Perhaps replace? It's hard to get stuff like that off and leave the panel and rivets unscathed.

I found that I already have most of these parts. Yay! Just not the winterization hatch.
 
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