Need Some Advice

[Selector]

What you are doing will support the foam. If you were to turn the cross-members, which are now on their sides, vertical instead, and mounted like joists, but under the horizontal component of your L-girders, you could eventually remove the foam (if and when you decide to try something different, such as 'cookie cutter' roadbed or 'spline' roadbed) and mount risers, with supporting cleats, to support roadbed. It's just a thought, but I admit that I may be loading you up with more concepts than you'd like at the moment. You could make the changes I am suggesting later simply by backing out screws and turning the cross-braces vertical.

I mention this because I do not use foam unless it is stacked for terrain relief. Even so, I do have roadbed on risers, and I fashion my terrain using hot glue and window screen over which I slather a slurry of plaster of Paris, Portland Cement, fine-ground vermiculite, and some masonry dye powder to make it more 'dirt' like.

In the photo below, I have the window screen scenery between the tracks and rising beyond them, and you can make out the spline roadbed between the two smaller trees in the foreground where I painted it grey to look like a concrete retaining wall.

 

[CambriaArea51]

Built my entire flat layout with 2 foot by 4 foot modules with a few 2 foot by 6 foot ones. Not a fan of open grid, to many gaps to fill in. I realize I’m in the minority with my opinion but that’s my opinion.

I look at it this way, if it's in a room of your house or garage or even a shed like Willie you can do a more permanent type layout. Being in a basement I want to be able to move sections if I need to get at anything. All my wiring ,plumbing, and ducting is above so if I need to move something I can undo a couple of clamps and slide it out.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

What you are doing will support the foam. If you were to turn the cross-members, which are now on their sides, vertical instead, and mounted like joists, but under the horizontal component of your L-girders, you could eventually remove the foam (if and when you decide to try something different, such as 'cookie cutter' roadbed or 'spline' roadbed) and mount risers, with supporting cleats, to support roadbed. It's just a thought, but I admit that I may be loading you up with more concepts than you'd like at the moment. You could make the changes I am suggesting later simply by backing out screws and turning the cross-braces vertical.

I mention this because I do not use foam unless it is stacked for terrain relief. Even so, I do have roadbed on risers, and I fashion my terrain using hot glue and window screen over which I slather a slurry of plaster of Paris, Portland Cement, fine-ground vermiculite, and some masonry dye powder to make it more 'dirt' like.

In the photo below, I have the window screen scenery between the tracks and rising beyond them, and you can make out the spline roadbed between the two smaller trees in the foreground where I painted it grey to look like a concrete retaining wall.

First of all I Love your scenery...It is so realistic! I appreciate what you are saying about the cross members. I built it with the l girders and the cross members flat so that it would support foam panels because it would be light weight should I have to move in the next year. But whether I move or not, I also have the option as you pointed out to back the screws out on the cross braces and turn them on edge, adding risers etc., should I choose to do so.

I know that foam panels without plywood is not all that common, but my hope is that it will work, at least for a while.

 

[Patrick]

I'd still put something under the foam as one wrong move and you'll find yourself going through it. One my "tables" I used 1/2" ply under the 1.5" foam sheet. I can lean on it if I need to do so. Since I built my tables secure enough I can stand on (overkill), I could have gotten by with 1/4" or even a Masonite sheet. You'll wish you had the first time you punch through the foam.

 

[MOWboss]

Again, I appreciate all the advice and thoroughly enjoy seeing the pictures of your layouts! It does seem that people definitely have different ways of doing things, but in the end the finished products are all fantastic! I can only hope that someday, I will have something that I am equally proud to display.

At this point I am still interested in receiving words of wisdom / advice, but I am moving on with my benchwork. My hope is that even though what I am doing is anywhere from a little unique to totally out in left-field compared to the way the members here built theirs, it will still work.

I have 9 separate sections I am building, of which I have completed 3. Of the 9 sections I have 3 identical in size and another 2 that are also identical in size, although a different size than the 3. One section will be 2 foot wide, 6 sections will be 3 foot wide and 2 sections will be 5 foot wide. (The five foot wide sections have access from 2 sides) With the exception of the 2 foot wide section, all legs are 31" apart and will be 46 inches from the ground to the top of the foam I am using for a sub-road bed. Both the legs and the l girders, including the diagonal braces, are assembled with bolts, so I can take them apart relatively easily. (The key word is relatively! )

Here are a few pictures of my construction efforts. Feel free to pick apart my design and carpentry skills!

View attachment 125225

1st Section with no slats on top

View attachment 125226

2nd Section


View attachment 125227
Both Sections Joined


View attachment 125228
Different view of both sections joined.

I'd like to throw my thoughts into this mix. You might want to consider diagonal bracing to replace your front legs. This design would be better suited to your final layout - allowing you to anchor your table back to the wall and wedge the diagonal bracing against the outer wall baseboard.
How many times do you kick a leg before you move it....

I would also add end pieces to your table. It would help stiffen it but when you join 2 tables together the ability of having indexed the tables with thru bolts will enhance alignment

Again, I appreciate all the advice and thoroughly enjoy seeing the pictures of your layouts! It does seem that people definitely have different ways of doing things, but in the end the finished products are all fantastic! I can only hope that someday, I will have something that I am equally proud to display.

At this point I am still interested in receiving words of wisdom / advice, but I am moving on with my benchwork. My hope is that even though what I am doing is anywhere from a little unique to totally out in left-field compared to the way the members here built theirs, it will still work.

I have 9 separate sections I am building, of which I have completed 3. Of the 9 sections I have 3 identical in size and another 2 that are also identical in size, although a different size than the 3. One section will be 2 foot wide, 6 sections will be 3 foot wide and 2 sections will be 5 foot wide. (The five foot wide sections have access from 2 sides) With the exception of the 2 foot wide section, all legs are 31" apart and will be 46 inches from the ground to the top of the foam I am using for a sub-road bed. Both the legs and the l girders, including the diagonal braces, are assembled with bolts, so I can take them apart relatively easily. (The key word is relatively! )

Here are a few pictures of my construction efforts. Feel free to pick apart my design and carpentry skills!

View attachment 125225

1st Section with no slats on top

View attachment 125226

2nd Section


View attachment 125227
Both Sections Joined


View attachment 125228
Different view of both sections joined.

 

[GeeTee]

front braces

You may find you need zee or x braces on the ends to prevent racking front to back .

 

[MOWboss]

One thing that you need to come to grips with is table height and depth. Ask 50 people what their ideal height is and you get 60 answers. The other concern I see going forward - where/how will you suspend all the wires under the table. DCC has a pair of wires running under your trackwork, power turnouts need wires to deadhead to the control panel, lighting wiring, maybe a couple of 110 outlets under the layout. The underside of benchwork can get pretty confusing after a while. Not to be a Debbie Downer but make this time, before you move, to build your "test table." Until you've tried several turnout offerings, understand how much space to leave in front of your table to your trackwork. How much space in the rear. Which material you prefer... Once you resolve those start up issues; height, depth and material you'll scare yourself how fast you can plant track.

 

[PMW]

[QUOTE="Ima Train Wreck, post: 500234, member: 9842"

I know that foam panels without plywood is not all that common, but my hope is that it will work, at least for a while.
[/QUOTE]

I'm also building my first layout. I put 3" foam board directly on open grid benchwork. Track noise was louder than I expected. I greatly reduced this by gluing a thin foam underlayment for hardwood floors I got from Home Depot between the cork roadbed and the foam. That being said I would glue the foam to plywood if I had it to do over again.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

Wow! There really are more than one way to skin a cat! Lots of interesting tips and ideas and most of them completely different...yet they have all worked for the people suggesting them. I decided to use foam panels primarily because of light weight should I need to move sometime in the near future. However, I had not thought about the possibility of punching through one, especially with all the cross members. I am now considering a thin sheet of plywood or Masonite under the foam panels.

In regards to removing my front legs and placing diagonal braces to the back wall and anchoring to the back wall...I love the idea, because legs get in the way. However, I know it is hard to read everything that has been posted, but my primary concern is that I may need to move in the next year or less and drilling into my poured concrete walls is in my opinion not the best idea right before I have to sell my home. Not everyone wants a wall mounted train set in the home they are buying or the holes or anchors left behind because I want to take the sections with me when I move.

In regards to attaching end pieces, if you look at the pictures I posted, I had end pieces on the two sections which I joined together using tee bolts. I just have not finished adding them to end piece you saw.

Also, I am as I say under my avatar, less than a beginner. However, that does not mean that I have not done a lot of research and have a fairly good idea of what I want. I come here seeking advice, because "I don't know, what I don't know," and I certainly have not learned from the greatest teacher of all as most if not all of you have, and that is experience. You all have experience and I don't. I also realize that if this is like most of the things I have done in my life, no matter how many suggestions I listen to and no matter how much research I have done, if I had it to do over again, there are almost always at least one, if not several things I would change. For now, I am comfortable with the depth, height etc., and the structure I am building in terms of strength and stability. It does not move side to side or front to back. I do like the idea of being able to have shelves underneath and for some reason even though I had thought about storage, I had not considered shelves. Another good suggestion made by more than one person.

Anyway, I sincerely appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions, even if I don't utilize them, it gives me a reason to evaluate what I am doing and to see if it makes sense to make a change or add/delete something. I am sure when I have my benchwork finished, at least this initial effort, I will have gained enough experience to know what I need to change in round two as I am certain there will be a round two as this seems like a rather addictive hobby!

 

[Iron Horseman]

I know that foam panels without plywood is not all that common, but my hope is that it will work, at least for a while.

??? What gave you that idea. The only place (almost) I use plywood is under the track. The rest is all just foam. Office layout shown.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

??? What gave you that idea. The only place (almost) I use plywood is under the track. The rest is all just foam. Office layout shown.

AWESOME...and thanks for sharing! I feel much better now!

 

[boatwrench]

Late to the station and appears the train has departed.

A decade or so ago there was an article in Model Railroader about building sections, 2x4 or 2x6. I think the article was called building a domino and was possibly written by David Burrows builder of the Cat Mountain & Santa Fe. The layout is built in 2x4 sections and can be taken apart and moved if necessary.

Have fun.

 

[MOWboss]

Shelving is an excellent idea. I would recommend putting casters under your shelving.

 

[santafewillie]

How many times do you kick a leg before you move it....

I recessed all of my layout legs six inches to avoid kicking them.

 

[Greg@mnrr]

In my opinion, I would avoid any shelving under the layout since the shelf(s) would make it difficult to service under table switch machines, wiring and a host of other items. I have floor storage under sections of my layout and those will be moved in the future so I can access some LED wiring.

Greg

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

I'd still put something under the foam as one wrong move and you'll find yourself going through it. One my "tables" I used 1/2" ply under the 1.5" foam sheet. I can lean on it if I need to do so. Since I built my tables secure enough I can stand on (overkill), I could have gotten by with 1/4" or even a Masonite sheet. You'll wish you had the first time you punch through the foam.

Well, as usual with me, I am able to do anything anyone else can do in twice the time and half as good. It's a gift! Consequently, the benchwork has taken me a lot longer than I anticipated. Partially because I am slow, partially because of the time I have to spend on it and partially because I have changed the layout and the methods enough times to cause several delays.

When I read the post from Patrick, quoted above, it got me to thinking. It was partially my fear that I could punch through the foam, but if I glue the foam boards to the benchwork, then the portability of the benchwork, should I have to move, would be somewhat negated by the fact that the top of the layout would be connected to the benchwork or else be destroyed in an effort to separate it. So, I decided to glue the foam to thin Masonite panels and then screw them to the girders and cross pieces. When and if I move, I could simply unscrew the these sections from the benchwork. But after starting that process, I didn't like it. I had several thoughts that just didn't sit well with me, so what I finally did, (still doing as I am not finished, but getting close) is to make a "Mint Ice Cream Sandwich" as one of my friends calls it. I put another piece of Masonite on the top. What I now have are very rigid foam panels that in the end are less expensive than plywood and MUCH lighter. It may or may not work as I think it will, but at this point, there is no turning back.

Thanks again for all the wonderful thoughts and suggestions!