Bringing Floquil back to life


jpolacchi

New Member
Is it possible to bring "old" Floquil back to life?I have an old NOS bottle of Flowquil,never opened and the pigment appears to have separated from the solvent and is pretty well settled to the bottom of the bottle.The bottle is about 50% pigment and about 1/3 or so of liquid/solvent inside a 1oz bottle(as full a bottle as can be).I'm wondering(either once opened or when I do open it) can I revive the old paint,or is it pretty much "done"?I did spring for a couple bottles of Dio Sol.Not necessarily for thinning because it would never be enough with how much I have acquired,but I thought it might be useful in replenishing and giving "life" back into some of the old paints.Most all of the Floquil I have is in excellent shape,but there is an old bottle or two that I'm not so sure of,but I'd like to be able to save it if I can.On a parting note,At some point I will be going through my Flowquil stock and inventorying it.I'm going to see how many of each color I have(if in excess of) and I may either be willing to sell or trade for other colors I have not yet acquired with others in the forum.If I do that,where is the best place to post it in here?
 
You have a pretty good post started here - I would consider this as good as any?
I'm going to see if I Modify spelling the name = Floquil?
The paint that has settled is still good - it just needs a good stirring.
Stirring is better as to NOT create tiny bubbles in the paint if you are going to spray it right away.
Xylene/ xylol from HD is as good as Dio-sol for a thinner (maybe the same?)
Good luck in your quest.
 
Well,I guess I'll see how easy it mixes when I open it?Maybe I'll end up combining it with a fresher bottle of the same color,but the pigment is packed pretty solid.Won't even budge with vigorous shaking.Yeah,I know Xylene is about as close as there is to Dio Sol.I just have 4 1/2oz. of actual Dio Sol and I bought it for the sole purpose of keeping the paints "fresh,or fresher" if they needed additional thinning after use?Just a drop or two I thought might be useful to a 1/2 or 3/4 full 1oz. bottle without thinning it out.I see Dio Sol on EVIL BAY now and then and I hate how greedy the sellers are.I don't know?Maybe its me?I just think there is a difference between "making money and a profit based on somethings value and ripping people off. I've found a couple really good sellers,but most of them are there to get top dollar or more,so they are there just for the money.I thought that's how "Floquil" was spelled?
 
Tell you what ... If it is "solid" as you say ... Place a small squeeze type clamp in your variable speed jigsaw, clamp in the bottle of paint and "let her rip"! (I had to grind down the end of the clamp to fit it into the jigsaw.)
A caution here ... use some heavy rubber bands or tape to secure the bottle to the clamp.
I have had a couple fly out and break; not a pretty sight!
 
You had a "W" in there ....

FYI - I place a 1/4 inch nut in each jar. Makes them easier to shake up.
Just a thought here, and I may be completely wr.....wro..........wrong here but,
What about immersing the bottle in a mechanic's part cleaner or a jewelry cleaner ultra-sonic tub?? Would the sonic vibes be transmitted to the pigment, or would it shatter the bottle?
 
You had a "W" in there ....

FYI - I place a 1/4 inch nut in each jar. Makes them easier to shake up.
Yeah,I have heard of guys doing that.a small nut&bolt or small ball bearing to help shake&mix up paint.I'd be a little concerned about "breaking" the glass bottle.Allot of my bottles are still closed/sealed and never been opened,so I'm not ready to open them up yet to drop a 1/4 nut inside it,but I'll probably do something like that once the bottle is oped and being used.
 
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You could stick them in box and ride em round in pickup next to the tailgate for a few days and see if that helps .



Paint itself is a plastic resin( alkyd /polyester ,acrylic) like cyanoacrylate glues . Once it is exposed to air it begins to cure, part of the job of the solvent in the bottle to prevent air from getting to the pigment vehicle/carrier and stopping it from prematurely curing .


If the bottles are dry they may not be worth recovering . Once paint is cured , I don't think adding solvent will un-cure it. I think the solvent may just break down the polymer chains not the molecules themselves. It may just break the polymer down to a monomer or shorter polymer chain.

If the paint is still liquid then it hasn't fully cured and may still be usable.

At any rate I would add some clear lacquer to the paint , if its partially cured adding the clear will give it some uncured carrier to help hold it in place.

You probably need to add Acetone back as well .Older lacquer formulas used higher amounts of Acetone vs. new formulations which are down around 2.5%? , Acetone mixes with just about anything including water, so if there is anything on the surface the Acetone should help the paint bond thru it rather than separating out.

All this is based on my limited knowledge of organic chemistry.
 
You could stick them in box and ride em round in pickup next to the tailgate for a few days and see if that helps .



Paint itself is a plastic resin( alkyd /polyester ,acrylic) like cyanoacrylate glues . Once it is exposed to air it begins to cure, part of the job of the solvent in the bottle to prevent air from getting to the pigment vehicle/carrier and stopping it from prematurely curing .


If the bottles are dry they may not be worth recovering . Once paint is cured , I don't think adding solvent will un-cure it. I think the solvent may just break down the polymer chains not the molecules themselves. It may just break the polymer down to a monomer or shorter polymer chain.

If the paint is still liquid then it hasn't fully cured and may still be usable.

At any rate I would add some clear lacquer to the paint , if its partially cured adding the clear will give it some uncured carrier to help hold it in place.

You probably need to add Acetone back as well .Older lacquer formulas used higher amounts of Acetone vs. new formulations which are down around 2.5%? , Acetone mixes with just about anything including water, so if there is anything on the surface the Acetone should help the paint bond thru it rather than separating out.

All this is based on my limited knowledge of organic chemistry.

Well,to the best of my knowledge,this bottle has never been opened and as I described,the solvent inside has separated from the pigment.I have shaken it up vigorously in an attempt to agitate the paint,laid it on its side-nothing so far.I'm including some pictures,its a little hard to see(not the best lighting) and I'm no photographer.I do have some Dio Sol,but from what you said,Dio Sol may not do the trick and Acetone might be needed?I'm not in a hurry to open it and start experimenting,but this is a NOS Floquil color,so it could very well be 40 years old(or older?).I would just like to try to save this paint,its a hard to find color and the damn thing(with current prices) cost about $45.00.I have to buy another one because I have misplaced it,but Micro Mark has a small,battery operated paint mixer(and shaker).I'm hoping using those two things will be useful?Not just for this stubborn bottle of paint,but for all my existing Floquil paints(and Model Master) for mixing.I do appreciate all the input on this and I am open for any advice and suggestions anyone can provide.
 

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Well,to the best of my knowledge,this bottle has never been opened and as I described,the solvent inside has separated from the pigment.I have shaken it up vigorously in an attempt to agitate the paint,laid it on its side-nothing so far.I

There are 3 things in the paint , solvent , carrier/resin , pigment.

It depends , the pigment may have just separated from the carrier / resin and settled . If you have an ammo brass shaker you could try that.

Acetone has a very low boiling point and evaporates quickly like seconds. I would open it and stick a probe ( kebob stick) in, and see if its hardened in bottom . If its soft , I would take the probe out and put it on a metal surface and mix with a little acetone and see what happens , If it thins I would mix and leave for little while and see if cures . If it does your probably ok. You can drop a nut ,BB or ball bearing in the bottle to help break it up . BB's or ball bearings would be less likely to break the bottle (no corners ) .
 
So...take like a "core sample" and mix with acetone to see if it liquifies or use Dio Sol?Then see if it cures,or how it cures?
 
exactly. test it first , you'd hate to put it on a model and find out that its no good .
True.If I open the bottle,I'm gonna try to see if it will mix up with the Micro Mark mixer.I might as well.If it mixes up and looks like muddy grit,it may not be any good unless the addition of Acetone or Dio Sol completely liquifies it and cures properly.If it liquifies it enough and I strain it,I think it might be Okay?I just hate to throw away a $45 bottle of paint.I kind of feel ripped off since the seller said it mixed and when I got it it does't. Hmmm..can I use the red spray nozzel from a WWd40 can to take the sample or a piece of K&S tubing?That would do the job I think?
 
I would not use a piece of plastic , xylene will attack most plastics. The red tube from wd40 can might work , Wd40 contains xylene so it might not dissolve .Small clean screw driver...any clean metal...nail . It shouldn't take much.
 
Ok 15 year + Floquil dark green
paint1.JPG
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probe1.JPG


Probed with an apple stick , resin and pigment separated , no solvent , consistency...used chewing gum .



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The mixing apparatus , added 1-2 tablespoons of xylene. results were mediocre thin paint with chewing gum . added a teaspoon of acetone....

probe_post_mix.JPG


still a few lumps , stir time maybe 60 seconds 200-500 rpm.


Paint was dry to the touch in about 10 minutes. The acetone seem to break up the resin faster , I would be tempted to add a little more acetone and leave or even shake overnight to help get rid of the lumps.
 
That's a good example thank you. I've recently bought some Floquil from someone.Not exact;ly what I was hoping for. I've a really OLD Penn. Green,it seemed to want to mix despite the pigment(like the other) is settled to the bottom.A couple other perplexed me.I have a Gray/Green, think its GN Green?Similar (but different issue).The pigment also separated from the solvent,but it appears that some of the rest of the paint body solidified(the brown stripe in the bottle) with liquid solvent inside. I've no idea if the paint can mix?I have doubts the paint is good any more which bothers me.I pay "top dollar" for paints like this and I anticipate the seller will at least be knowledgeable enough to tell if the paint mixes?I have found some to be so lazy as to not want to make the effort.I have a similar issue with a Lite Green Floquil also.Pigment separated from the solvent.That one "may be" salvageable. I'm also not a fan of the Testors buy out when they took over and started making Floquil into "enamels".I have a couple of those when folks I buy from say,yeah,its NOS Flowquil and I don't really get a good look at it.I can tell by lookimg at the cap and the label and what solvent it says to use(obviously).Unless someone can convince me otherwise that the Testors Floquil is worth a damn,but I think Rustolium makes S^%$@!$^T enamel paint.
 

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On a parting note(and I'm not sure where to post this?),but would anyone be interested in either buying or trading some NOS Flowquil paint?The guy I bought from sent me 4 1oz. bottles I did not ask for,so I'm stuck with 2 1oz. bottles ea.; Milwaukee and Uplight Orange.These are still "old Floquil" and are not the Testors brand/enamels.Like all old paints,the pigment has settled to the bottom and separated from the solvent,but I did shake them and they appear to want to mix still and with some TLC(and straining the paint) I believe they are still "very usable".For Trade: I'm looking for a number of different Floquil colors.Browns,Rust,shades of gray;CN,Letter,SP etc.,Reefer White and multiple military colors.
 

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I really don't know what I have , and what I do was stored outside in shed and was probably exposed to high temps in the Texas sun for years , I have brand new factory sealed can of Dio Sol , Its bone dry. Right now I am probably going to switch to something other than Floquil after I use up what I have. I was in the process of changing over to ScaleCoat.

A couple of side notes :
The main takeaway I found was that , if the paint is the consistency of chewing gum , its probably salvageable , But you probably need to use an agitator in bottle to get the resin to mix and breakup and then put it on a shaker for several hours to break any lumps.

I think from what I can find that Dio Sol , is probably 50/50 xylene and laquer thinner. The thinner would slow the drying time and make it less likely to craze plastic.
dry.JPG


15+ year old dried Floquil.

just cursory scan of the paint bucket
IMG_1303.JPG



I also saw some grimy black,foundation, concrete , barrier , retarder,glaze. not sure about the zinc chromate , its still liquid but looks like a brick inside.
 



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